When are Side Chicks Ok

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

If she is 100% committed to never again putting out, then yes I think it is reasonable to look elsewhere. I’m not sure how you would know that though if there’s no communication?

I think Mark 10:7-8 cover it pretty well; although, verse 9 doesn’t really help my case :/.

For legal purposes I would suggest immediately filing for separation and ultimately get divorced. [/quote]

“No communication” can simply mean that in her mind the matter has been decided and there’s no use for discussion. It doesn’t have to mean that there is literally no dialogue.

Going back to Mark, at what point are you spiritually divorced? A week of no sex? Two? Six?

How about if you go 4 months and she gives you a lackluster hand job for your birthday, does the clock start over?

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

If she is 100% committed to never again putting out, then yes I think it is reasonable to look elsewhere. I’m not sure how you would know that though if there’s no communication?

I think Mark 10:7-8 cover it pretty well; although, verse 9 doesn’t really help my case :/.

For legal purposes I would suggest immediately filing for separation and ultimately get divorced. [/quote]

“No communication” can simply mean that in her mind the matter has been decided and there’s no use for discussion. It doesn’t have to mean that there is literally no dialogue.

Going back to Mark, at what point are you spiritually divorced? A week of no sex? Two? Six?

How about if you go 4 months and she gives you a lackluster hand job for your birthday, does the clock start over?[/quote]

I don’t really follow. A man can start a dialogue. “Hey _____ it’s been a month since we’ve had sex. I want to discuss what’s going on in our marriage.” If a married couple isn’t having sex it’s just as much on the man to start that communication.

As far as Mark goes, I don’t know. In my opinion the only way you would automatically be spiritually divorced is if the woman (or man) 100% unilaterally decides never to have sex again the you are spiritually divorced. I think when the man or woman cheats they are also automatically spiritually divorced.

If you get an HJ after 4 months of nothing you should just get a divorce. I don’t know when or if that counts as spiritual divorce. I missed the part of the sermon where volume/frequency was mentioned :wink:

Bottom line, imo, if you’re unhappy you file the necessary paper work first then go to town. I’m not going to dishonor myself by cheating because my spouse isn’t putting out. I guess it’s just my perspective.

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
LOL at all the white knights calling “cheating” chicken shit or advising someone to get a divorce (which takes a year or more) BEFORE you get some. LMFAO
[/quote]
You’re being ridiculously literal. There’s no lock on your dick that comes off once the judge signs a paper. What people are saying is that you make it known that things are over. Start the process, whatever. I know how long it takes, but if you’re fucking married to someone you at least owe it to them to make it known that a divorce is gonna happen and the union is no longer exclusive. Don’t just go behind their back and wait and see if they ask. I mean why? YOU are the one who chose to get married, YOU gotta deal with the consequences.

If you literally can’t afford a divorce then hire a hitman or something I dunno.

Don’t do that though. I feel like hebrewhero is the type of person who actually would. Hebrewhero, don’t tell the cops that csulli from TNation told you to hire a contract killer to assassinate your frigid wife.[/quote]

I actually think that society is far better served by keeping families intact. No fault divorce makes it a moot point about who cheat’s first, so who gives a fuck? Every man should know that he’s going to get fucked six ways from Sunday in a divorce (which isn’t fair) so why should there be a reasonable expectation of fidelity if the woman stops meeting the man’s needs?

I could just as easily confront a woman who isn’t putting out and say, “you’re fucking MARRIED, you at least owe your husband some pussy when he wants it. You KNEW sex was part of being married, so if you didn’t want the dick, you shouldn’t have done it”.

If SHE cuts it off, how is there any reasonable expectation that the relationship continues to be exclusive? That’s a completely unreasonable expectation.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I don’t really follow. A man can start a dialogue. “Hey _____ it’s been a month since we’ve had sex. I want to discuss what’s going on in our marriage.” If a married couple isn’t having sex it’s just as much on the man to start that communication.

As far as Mark goes, I don’t know. In my opinion the only way you would automatically be spiritually divorced is if the woman (or man) 100% unilaterally decides never to have sex again the you are spiritually divorced. I think when the man or woman cheats they are also automatically spiritually divorced.

If you get an HJ after 4 months of nothing you should just get a divorce. I don’t know when or if that counts as spiritual divorce. I missed the part of the sermon where volume/frequency was mentioned :wink:

Bottom line, imo, if you’re unhappy you file the necessary paper work first then go to town. I’m not going to dishonor myself by cheating because my spouse isn’t putting out. I guess it’s just my perspective.
[/quote]

Got it, thanks.

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
No fault divorce makes it a moot point about who cheat’s first, so who gives a fuck? [/quote]

I would think any man that lives his life by a certain set of principles, a code if you will, would care.

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I actually think that society is far better served by keeping families intact. No fault divorce makes it a moot point about who cheat’s first, so who gives a fuck? Every man should know that he’s going to get fucked six ways from Sunday in a divorce (which isn’t fair) so why should there be a reasonable expectation of fidelity if the woman stops meeting the man’s needs?

I could just as easily confront a woman who isn’t putting out and say, “you’re fucking MARRIED, you at least owe your husband some pussy when he wants it. You KNEW sex was part of being married, so if you didn’t want the dick, you shouldn’t have done it”.

If SHE cuts it off, how is there any reasonable expectation that the relationship continues to be exclusive? That’s a completely unreasonable expectation.[/quote]
I agree about the expectation, but still. If you know divorce is going to more or less ruin you financially, then I guess do whatever you need to do to get your rocks off without dooming yourself. If you can reasonably expect to come out of the divorce in decent shape, I definitely think that should be the option. Kids always complicate things. I’m sure there are situations in which the kids would be better served by not getting a divorce, BUT I think there are many situations in which the kids would actually be better served if the parents were separated. Provided that would mean the kids need to have plenty of access to both their mom and dad, but you know sometimes it’s healthier if the mom and dad can interact with their kids separately rather than staying together in an environment made toxic by the parents’ passive aggression (or worse) towards eachother.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
If the wife has closed shop with out so much as a courtesy conversation, and you get your needs met, that’s not cheating, that’s giving a selfish bitch what she deserves.[/quote]

That is still cheating no matter how you rationalize it.

Personally, I’d rather keep my integrity intact, file separation paper work, and then go to town. As far as I’m concerned the “year or more” is just to legally divorce. It has no bearing on spiritual/religious divorce, which imo occurred the second he or she cheated. [/quote]

I will repeat me question:

If I tell her in advance that my dick is going to get szcked, either by her or by someone else, is it still cheating if she no longer does it and I get it somewhere else?

Once could say that I solemly vowed that this exactly what would happen?

[quote]orion wrote:
I will repeat me question:

If I tell her in advance that my dick is going to get szcked, either by her or by someone else, is it still cheating if she no longer does it and I get it somewhere else?

Once could say that I solemly vowed that this exactly what would happen?[/quote]
Yeah but that’s not so much cheating as it is just an open marriage.

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
I will repeat me question:

If I tell her in advance that my dick is going to get szcked, either by her or by someone else, is it still cheating if she no longer does it and I get it somewhere else?

Once could say that I solemly vowed that this exactly what would happen?[/quote]
Yeah but that’s not so much cheating as it is just an open marriage.[/quote]

But I dont want an open marriage.

I just wont be one of those poor suckers that are kept in line by her doling out sex as a reward or as a reward for good behavior.

I will also not be one of those who get juuuuust enough sex so that they dont leave.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
No fault divorce makes it a moot point about who cheat’s first, so who gives a fuck? [/quote]

I would think any man that lives his life by a certain set of principles, a code if you will, would care. [/quote]

I agree, and I say that as someone who has confronted the question of a sexless marriage WITH a spouse who’d cheated, presumably in an effort to find a way to excite himself. Ultimately the conclusion I came to was that my own standards of behavior would not be met if I went outside the marriage. I did not think it was enough reason to blow up a family, so resolved to accept the status quo.

Ultimately the marriage ended anyway. We were separated for four months before we officially called it quits and I don’t think it was even two months after the decision that I had my first-ever fling. I feel very comfortable with my behavior - there was no betrayal involved as far as I’m concerned, though I’m sure he wasn’t thrilled. I felt and still feel that I’d spent long enough locked in a tower by myself and nothing was served by my waiting.

He struggles with the same problem post-divorce. He moved to Taiwan to be with a woman and that crashed and burned, too, with sex again an issue. I am inclined to believe that marriages that become sexless for more than a brief time (let’s say six months barring illness, a libido-suppressing drug, or a string of pregnancies) are going to stay that way. Something is wrong with one of the partners or the match is not a good one.

But back to ethical behavior - AC, I’m surprised at you. What happened to honesty?

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
No fault divorce makes it a moot point about who cheat’s first, so who gives a fuck? [/quote]

I would think any man that lives his life by a certain set of principles, a code if you will, would care. [/quote]

I agree, and I say that as someone who has confronted the question of a sexless marriage WITH a spouse who’d cheated, presumably in an effort to find a way to excite himself. Ultimately the conclusion I came to was that my own standards of behavior would not be met if I went outside the marriage. I did not think it was enough reason to blow up a family, so resolved to accept the status quo.

Ultimately the marriage ended anyway. We were separated for four months before we officially called it quits and I don’t think it was even two months after the decision that I had my first-ever fling. I feel very comfortable with my behavior - there was no betrayal involved as far as I’m concerned, though I’m sure he wasn’t thrilled. I felt and still feel that I’d spent long enough locked in a tower by myself and nothing was served by my waiting.

He struggles with the same problem post-divorce. He moved to Taiwan to be with a woman and that crashed and burned, too, with sex again an issue. I am inclined to believe that marriages that become sexless for more than a brief time (let’s say six months barring illness, a libido-suppressing drug, or a string of pregnancies) are going to stay that way. Something is wrong with one of the partners or the match is not a good one.

But back to ethical behavior - AC, I’m surprised at you. What happened to honesty?[/quote]

I would never lie about it. But I would certainly be discreet. I stated up there already that I wouldn’t lie about it…

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
If the wife has closed shop with out so much as a courtesy conversation, and you get your needs met, that’s not cheating, that’s giving a selfish bitch what she deserves.[/quote]

That is still cheating no matter how you rationalize it.

Personally, I’d rather keep my integrity intact, file separation paper work, and then go to town. As far as I’m concerned the “year or more” is just to legally divorce. It has no bearing on spiritual/religious divorce, which imo occurred the second he or she cheated. [/quote]

I will repeat me question:

If I tell her in advance that my dick is going to get szcked, either by her or by someone else, is it still cheating if she no longer does it and I get it somewhere else?

Once could say that I solemly vowed that this exactly what would happen?[/quote]

If she says, “That’s okay,” then no it isn’t, imo.
If she says, “Bullshit,” then yes it is, imo.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
I will repeat me question:

If I tell her in advance that my dick is going to get szcked, either by her or by someone else, is it still cheating if she no longer does it and I get it somewhere else?

Once could say that I solemly vowed that this exactly what would happen?[/quote]
Yeah but that’s not so much cheating as it is just an open marriage.[/quote]

But I dont want an open marriage.

I just wont be one of those poor suckers that are kept in line by her doling out sex as a reward or as a reward for good behavior.

I will also not be one of those who get juuuuust enough sex so that they dont leave. [/quote]

Then get divorced and stay single for the rest of your life.

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
No fault divorce makes it a moot point about who cheat’s first, so who gives a fuck? [/quote]

I would think any man that lives his life by a certain set of principles, a code if you will, would care. [/quote]

I agree, and I say that as someone who has confronted the question of a sexless marriage WITH a spouse who’d cheated, presumably in an effort to find a way to excite himself. Ultimately the conclusion I came to was that my own standards of behavior would not be met if I went outside the marriage. I did not think it was enough reason to blow up a family, so resolved to accept the status quo.

Ultimately the marriage ended anyway. We were separated for four months before we officially called it quits and I don’t think it was even two months after the decision that I had my first-ever fling. I feel very comfortable with my behavior - there was no betrayal involved as far as I’m concerned, though I’m sure he wasn’t thrilled. I felt and still feel that I’d spent long enough locked in a tower by myself and nothing was served by my waiting.

He struggles with the same problem post-divorce. He moved to Taiwan to be with a woman and that crashed and burned, too, with sex again an issue. I am inclined to believe that marriages that become sexless for more than a brief time (let’s say six months barring illness, a libido-suppressing drug, or a string of pregnancies) are going to stay that way. Something is wrong with one of the partners or the match is not a good one.

But back to ethical behavior - AC, I’m surprised at you. What happened to honesty?[/quote]

I would never lie about it. But I would certainly be discreet. I stated up there already that I wouldn’t lie about it…
[/quote]

Isn’t that just a lie of omission?

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
LOL at all the white knights calling “cheating” chicken shit or advising someone to get a divorce (which takes a year or more) BEFORE you get some. LMFAO

If you get married and have a good sex life (why would you marry someone with whom you have a BAD sex life?) and all of a sudden she stops giving it up, why the fuck would any one in their right mind NOT get it from somewhere else? It’s just sex. I’m not saying you should lie about it either, IF SHE ASKS. But it’s not like you should volunteer it. If a woman stops giving up the pussy, then why should she expect her husband to stay faithful?

If she has a medical problem, then she should communicate clearly about her problem and work towards a solution. But just to cut it off without even a conversation? Fuck her, a man has needs and those needs will be met. By her or someone else.

“but you took VOWS”… SO DID SHE. If she’s breaking HER vows to take care of her husband, then there is no reasonable expectation for him to keep his in being faithful. It doesn’t mean you should break up your family over it. Just get a piece on the side and be discreet. Just like civilized people have done for thousands of years.[/quote]

Finally someone that makes sense… Its a complex situation if your wife gives you no sex, and you are sex “starved” Getting a divorce is a huge deal. That means breaking up your family, spliting property, ect. All for some ass. I think if try to work it out do counsling and all that stuff and she still wont open the gates. Then yes you can crash yor life and try rebuilding or simply just suplement the ass.

I agree with most of you if your wife is giving it up then your are a dirt ball for cheating. But if she aint and you’ve tried everything to spark the relationship why suffer for months, years? Vows are vows yes but women make a vow to satisify there husbands too. I think if you starve the other physically & dont try to fix it you get what you get. If I didnt pay my employees I’d understand if they stole from me… you dig?

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I am inclined to believe that marriages that become sexless for more than a brief time (let’s say six months barring illness, a libido-suppressing drug, or a string of pregnancies) are going to stay that way. Something is wrong with one of the partners or the match is not a good one.
[/quote]

Rather the pessimist.

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I actually think that society is far better served by keeping families intact. No fault divorce makes it a moot point about who cheat’s first, so who gives a fuck? Every man should know that he’s going to get fucked six ways from Sunday in a divorce (which isn’t fair) so why should there be a reasonable expectation of fidelity if the woman stops meeting the man’s needs?

I could just as easily confront a woman who isn’t putting out and say, “you’re fucking MARRIED, you at least owe your husband some pussy when he wants it. You KNEW sex was part of being married, so if you didn’t want the dick, you shouldn’t have done it”.

If SHE cuts it off, how is there any reasonable expectation that the relationship continues to be exclusive? That’s a completely unreasonable expectation.[/quote]
I agree about the expectation, but still. If you know divorce is going to more or less ruin you financially, then I guess do whatever you need to do to get your rocks off without dooming yourself. If you can reasonably expect to come out of the divorce in decent shape, I definitely think that should be the option. Kids always complicate things. I’m sure there are situations in which the kids would be better served by not getting a divorce, BUT I think there are many situations in which the kids would actually be better served if the parents were separated. Provided that would mean the kids need to have plenty of access to both their mom and dad, but you know sometimes it’s healthier if the mom and dad can interact with their kids separately rather than staying together in an environment made toxic by the parents’ passive aggression (or worse) towards eachother.[/quote]

Spoken like a man with no family or kids. You really dont know what you are talking about. Chicken is 100% right most states now have a no fault policy. Financially divorce isnt the death sentance it once was. For that matter judges hand out 50/50 custody pretty much all the time now unless they have a reason not to. Its more a emotional penalty on your kids. Im saying why make your kids move, get a new home, live a less better life, and get a new step dad all cuz Mommy is selfish. Get ass elswhere dont get caught everyone wins. Give her a altimatim say hey if you aint givin it up Im getting it elswhere if you catch me cool if not cool. How come the womans feelings always trump the mans?? All the sudden we dont count.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
No fault divorce makes it a moot point about who cheat’s first, so who gives a fuck? [/quote]

I would think any man that lives his life by a certain set of principles, a code if you will, would care. [/quote]

I agree, and I say that as someone who has confronted the question of a sexless marriage WITH a spouse who’d cheated, presumably in an effort to find a way to excite himself. Ultimately the conclusion I came to was that my own standards of behavior would not be met if I went outside the marriage. I did not think it was enough reason to blow up a family, so resolved to accept the status quo.

Ultimately the marriage ended anyway. We were separated for four months before we officially called it quits and I don’t think it was even two months after the decision that I had my first-ever fling. I feel very comfortable with my behavior - there was no betrayal involved as far as I’m concerned, though I’m sure he wasn’t thrilled. I felt and still feel that I’d spent long enough locked in a tower by myself and nothing was served by my waiting.

He struggles with the same problem post-divorce. He moved to Taiwan to be with a woman and that crashed and burned, too, with sex again an issue. I am inclined to believe that marriages that become sexless for more than a brief time (let’s say six months barring illness, a libido-suppressing drug, or a string of pregnancies) are going to stay that way. Something is wrong with one of the partners or the match is not a good one.

But back to ethical behavior - AC, I’m surprised at you. What happened to honesty?[/quote]

I would never lie about it. But I would certainly be discreet. I stated up there already that I wouldn’t lie about it…
[/quote]

Isn’t that just a lie of omission? [/quote]

No… There’s no such think as “lie of omission”. A “LIE” is when someone asks you something or you volunteer something that is not true. You cannot, by definition, “LIE” by not saying anything.

Again, back to the situation at hand, if a woman (or a man) is so selfish that they won’t meet the sexual needs of their spouse, then why do they deserve to be given ammunition that could be used against the deprived spouse? The whole situation could be avoided if the woman would come correct with the pussy to her man…

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
No… There’s no such think as “lie of omission”. A “LIE” is when someone asks you something or you volunteer something that is not true. You cannot, by definition, “LIE” by not saying anything. [/quote]

That’s an interesting stance.

So, for example, if our friend here walked in his door at 10 o’clock and his wife says, “you’re home pretty late. Where were you?” and he say’s, “I went out with a friend,” (failing to mention the location was a hotel room and the friend was this girl he’s cheating on his wife with). You don’t see that as a lie by omission? What would you call it?

[quote]
Again, back to the situation at hand, if a woman (or a man) is so selfish that they won’t meet the sexual needs of their spouse, then why do they deserve to be given ammunition that could be used against the deprived spouse? The whole situation could be avoided if the woman would come correct with the pussy to her man…[/quote]

What does, “Come correct with the pussy,” even mean? Maybe if Hebrew (I don’t know if this is true just making a point) was laying the dick correctly his wife would put out more.

These threads are always kind of funny, and I find it even amusing that the guys in here refuse to take any responsibility for the reasons of a sexless marriage. As others have said, if you’re in a sexless marriage, chances are there are other problems involved and chances are very good that the husband and wife both play a significant role in those problems. But now it’s all the wife’s fault instead of looking at the underlying reasons for the lack of sex.

AC - your position about it not being a lie of omission because you don’t say anything might be technically sound on its face, but wouldn’t work in practice (at least in my marriage). My wife knows where I am at all times because that’s how close we are.

If I come home and she asks about my day or I tell her I have an after hours work function to go sleep with someone else, at some point in time a question will arise that she will find out what I’m up to unless I lie about it. I’m not sure how much communication is normal for a marriage as I only have 1, but I can’t imagine the NEVER lie about anything scenario lasting for very long in a marriage with at least half way decent communication.

Lastly, I really think I have a naturally low sex drive. I’ve never felt so sex crazed or addicted or like I needed it so bad I’d be willing to stray. Sometimes she’s in the mood, sometimes she’s not. Either way, I’ll be ok.