Do the para-olympics have to let in everybody now? Murderball looked pretty fun.
Where do you draw the line though? I recall when I was a kid there was a kicker in the NFL that had no toes, and wore a squared-off shoe (Otto, er, I mean Zap do you remember the dude I am talking about?). He was an old school style kicker (i.e. not soccer style) and was accurate with a strong leg. It was controversial even then. Clearly some one in wheelchair is not on the same footing i[/i] as a typical runner, but what about a guy with a prosthetic leg, foot, etc.?
This is profoundly stupid.
I hope the girl gets booed.
[quote]Northcott wrote:
mike08042 wrote:
I think everyone is missing the point, this girl wants to be just like everyone else, and she is 16. She is not an adult, she is a child and should be treated like the other children even though she has a disability.
Sixteen is not a child. Granted, she’s not yet fully an adult, but only the most immature of 16 year olds could possibly be viewed as a child. She’s only two years from an age where some young people are off getting shot at or blown up… or taking lives themselves. She’s only two years off of legally shouldering every adult responsibility our society has to offer (except for drinking… who the Hell thought -that- one up?!?).
Now is the time for her to start learning adult lessons, and incorporating them into her life. Too many teens are coddled as it is. There’s an entire up and coming generation who don’t seem to think that the word “responsibility” applies to everyone but themselves.
[/quote]
I just have one question, im not trying to trap you, its just an honest question: do you work with 16yr olds or come into contact with a wide variety of them (not including your own) throughout the day?
From what I understand she just wants to be able to attend and participate in the track meets with the other kids, rather than having to sit on the sidelines. There’s no possibility of her competing or winning these meets. I’m not sure why some of you are getting all up in arms over this. It’s not a big deal.
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
I just have one question, im not trying to trap you, its just an honest question: do you work with 16yr olds or come into contact with a wide variety of them (not including your own) throughout the day?[/quote]
A limited circle of them, and not daily. But yes, I’m acquainted with a number of sixteen year-olds, and do have regular contact. Why do you ask?
[quote]Northcott wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
I just have one question, im not trying to trap you, its just an honest question: do you work with 16yr olds or come into contact with a wide variety of them (not including your own) throughout the day?
A limited circle of them, and not daily. But yes, I’m acquainted with a number of sixteen year-olds, and do have regular contact. Why do you ask?
[/quote]
I was interested in the context of your post, whether it was coming from first hand experience with teenagers, or if it was coming from a theoretical understanding.
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
I was interested in the context of your post, whether it was coming from first hand experience with teenagers, or if it was coming from a theoretical understanding.[/quote]
Bit of both. And while it’s been some time since I’ve been that age, I haven’t forgotten at all what it was like. Events over the last few months ended up bringing certain memories back quite clearly.
The one, undeniable truth of this is that our society is set up to hoist the full legal responsibilities of an adult on our kids when they hit 18 years of age. That’s a pretty damned arbitrary number. (Though I’m still mystified as to how we can justify sending them off to warzones to kill or be killed, but don’t allow them to legally have a beer. How the HELL does that work?)
While we may, as individuals, still be able to look at them at that point in their lives and say; “They’re just a kid, I’ll cut them some slack”, it doesn’t work that way if they get themselves in a broader range of trouble.
By 18 years of age, we have to have them prepared for the full responsibility of adulthood – or at least as close as it’s possible to get them. I think it’s fairly rare that anyone’s ready for that shift, even the most level-headed of kids. The only way they stand a chance, however, is if we start to give them both the respect and responsibility due an adult, in measured doses, earlier on.
I think that, painting with broad strokes as I speak here, our society has fumbled with the concept of personal responsibility. Parents who don’t spend any time reading to their kids or disciplining them now blame the schools for the lack of literacy and/or proper behaviour in their kids. People who make the choice to drink and drive can sue you if they were drinking during a party at your home.
Sooner or later this insane cycle of abdication of responsibility has to draw to a screeching halt. It’ll either do so because it’s bogged the system down into a fundamental crash, or (more likely), as we get nearer critical mass, society will adjust to prevent that occurance. Either way, it’s not a pleasant journey.
And that’s my “just pulled an all nighter so I’m only half-lucid” rant for the morning.
[quote]TheWookie wrote:
Where do you draw the line though? I recall when I was a kid there was a kicker in the NFL that had no toes, and wore a squared-off shoe … [/quote]
I think it was Tom Dempsey. I think he was born with half an arm and half a foot.
HE wore a special shoe with a steel plate to allow him to kick.
He had the NFL record field goal (63 yards?).
Some people said he had an unfair advantage and his recoed shouldn’t count.
These debates are ongoing and not always clear cut.
Allowing Dempsey to play was the right thing in my mind.
Allowing this girl to blow everyone off the track does not seem to make much sense now that the facts are in.
Thanks Zap. I had figured you would know who I was talking about. (Dude we’re old)
My point wasn’t whether or not the girl should be allowed to compete, but that it can be fuzzy sometimes. Another debatable one is the PGA and Casey Martin.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
TheWookie wrote:
Where do you draw the line though? I recall when I was a kid there was a kicker in the NFL that had no toes, and wore a squared-off shoe …
I think it was Tom Dempsey. I think he was born with half an arm and half a foot.
HE wore a special shoe with a steel plate to allow him to kick.
He had the NFL record field goal (63 yards?).
Some people said he had an unfair advantage and his recoed shouldn’t count.
These debates are ongoing and not always clear cut.
Allowing Dempsey to play was the right thing in my mind.
Allowing this girl to blow everyone off the track does not seem to make much sense now that the facts are in.[/quote]
[quote]E-man wrote:
Very sorry. I put my foot in my mouth once again.[/quote]
Yeah, but did you feel the stretch in that hamstring ? ? ?
I think they should let her compete, but not be eligible for any of the awards or winning (placing). The wheelchair athletes run before everyone else in races / marathons because they are so damn fast.
If she is eligible, how is that fair to the other kids?
Are they gonna pave and flatten the cross-country trail if she decides she wants to do that?
i think this shows how overpowered the judicial branh of the government is. apparently they can tell us to do whatever they want. how is that different than an “evil” dictatorship? so as to prevent hijacking, i will add that i think it is interesting that the only other para here does not support this girl.
[quote]Prince Vegeta wrote:
i think this shows how overpowered the judicial branh of the government is. apparently they can tell us to do whatever they want. how is that different than an “evil” dictatorship? [/quote]
A distinct lack of families who disagree with the government disappearing in the middle of the night would probably be the first sign.
When the government makes stupid decisions, we’re lucky that, at worst, we in North America get saddled with an irritating or incompetent dictatorship. So far we’re (knock on wood) a far cry off of an “evil” dictatorship.
[quote]Northcott wrote:
…we in North America get saddled with an irritating or incompetent dictatorship. So far we’re (knock on wood) a far cry off of an “evil” dictatorship.
[/quote]
As much as I love Mexico, I am not sure I would want to be saddled with thier government either… people there do disappear.
This is fucking stupid, let her practice not compete.
It’s like the government saying that a person on a jet ski can play water polo because they only have one arm and can’t swim.
[quote]TheWookie wrote:
Where do you draw the line though? I recall when I was a kid there was a kicker in the NFL that had no toes, and wore a squared-off shoe (Otto, er, I mean Zap do you remember the dude I am talking about?). He was an old school style kicker (i.e. not soccer style) and was accurate with a strong leg. It was controversial even then. Clearly some one in wheelchair is not on the same footing i[/i] as a typical runner, but what about a guy with a prosthetic leg, foot, etc.? [/quote]
The technology of sport-specific prosthetic legs is approaching the point where it will be an advantage for two-leg below-the-knee amputees, according to some show I saw on the Discovery Channel.
[quote]larryb wrote:
…
The technology of sport-specific prosthetic legs is approaching the point where it will be an advantage for two-leg below-the-knee amputees, according to some show I saw on the Discovery Channel.
[/quote]
I read an article on that. Those dudes can fly. There is a controversy about the length of the limb. Some guys use prosthetic limbs longer than the the leg was and are going incredibly fast. Some think that it is cheating.
[quote]4est wrote:
E-man wrote:
She’s 16 fucking years old. I hope you have a crippled daughter so you can tell her she has to accept the fact she can’t “foot” race like other normal kids and let go of the dream of ever running. Shitbags like yourself are the reason disabled kids grow up with the worst confidence in the world.
William Shatner voice
Must…
Resist…
Posting…
Owl…uhhgg
Ok, seriously, since you didn’t know that I’ve been a para since (1985) the age of 16, I won’t be a shithead to you.
Kids need encouragement to do all they can will what they have - agreed. If she is just running along the track at the same time as the kids but not allowed to get the blue ribbon, I can see that as fair to the other kids. However, what’s the point? It seems a bit silly.[/quote]
I’m speechless at the amount of class that you just showed. That never happens on these forums. You are the man.
I also agree with you 100%. She can’t run, so she shouldn’t be allowed to race. That’s why the Paralympics exist.