What's Your Post-Workout Shake?

[quote]Peot wrote:
I think there’s a reason you haven’t seen any major difference. I don’t think it takes THAT much effort to plan out a PWO meal so that you aren’t downing a triple Whopper [/quote]

Sure, it doesn’t take THAT much effort, but that’s not my point. I HAVE had times where I put a great deal of effort into proper peri-workout nutrition, and I have had times when I was slacking, and just made sure to get down a decent amount of food. I have not noticed a substantial difference in my gains either way. I just think people overestimate the usefulness of planning every minute detail.

I also notice that the ones who make the most progress in my gym, are not the ones who plan out every single detail of their lives. The ones who are the biggest, strongest ones, are the ones who just follow the basics of lift heavy, eat a lot, and rest. Just look at how many people have these intricate, planned out post-workout nutrition plans, and then look at how many are even over 200lbs.

[quote]Tattoo85 wrote:
Peot wrote:
I think there’s a reason you haven’t seen any major difference. I don’t think it takes THAT much effort to plan out a PWO meal so that you aren’t downing a triple Whopper

Sure, it doesn’t take THAT much effort, but that’s not my point. I HAVE had times where I put a great deal of effort into proper peri-workout nutrition, and I have had times when I was slacking, and just made sure to get down a decent amount of food. I have not noticed a substantial difference in my gains either way. I just think people overestimate the usefulness of planning every minute detail.

I also notice that the ones who make the most progress in my gym, are not the ones who plan out every single detail of their lives. The ones who are the biggest, strongest ones, are the ones who just follow the basics of lift heavy, eat a lot, and rest. Just look at how many people have these intricate, planned out post-workout nutrition plans, and then look at how many are even over 200lbs.[/quote]

I have 2 big friends who would regularly be seen in the gym at about 10pm… having been drinking since 7pm. Quite a sight, but they were still strong as shit. Here I am worrying about spiking my insulin at the right time, they’re benching drunk.

Exactly. I’m in no way recommending people do something such as that, but it just goes to show that training is NOT rocket science. People try to fine tune all these trivial aspects, when they have yet to make any real progress from the basics. Most big guys that I know have very basic peri-workout nutrition. They either never bothered to research the latest and greatest peri-workout nutrition ideas because what they are doing now works perfectly fine, or they know about it and don’t care because of the same reason.

But then I see this one guy who started training at my gym about a year ago, who weighed probably about 140lbs at the time. He pops pills before, during, and after training, along with his shake with several ingredients in it. A year later, and how much does he probably weigh now? Approximately 140lbs.

If someone is making progress, and wants to continue fine-tuning every aspect to get the most out of it, I don’t see a problem. But people get so wrapped up in the details that they miss the big picture.

I was under the impression that Berardi was against using casein PWO. I thought I remembered reading a roundtable between him and waterbuy about it and Waterbury was for putting casein in your PWO shake but Berardi was not.

I believe Berardi said it would slow the absorption rate of the shake and casein should be saved til later after your workout.

I have no idea where I might have read this, but I am pretty sure I am remembering correctly.

[quote]Trenchant wrote:

Too much evidence supporting the whey casein blend to drop it in favor of whey alone.[/quote]

Yeah I agree with the mix but I couldn’t find any real clear reseach on it. It hasn’t been studied say as much as creatine has.

Some people say you can’t have the best of both worlds (fast/slow) But there also hasn’t been anything that I can find saying you can’t. The best way I’ve heard it put is, what do you drink as an infant?

Milk! at the most crucial and fast growing time in your life you consume milk. Which is whey/casein mix right? Mother nature knows best! Cows, deer, horses, people all consume milk to grow at incredible rates. So fuck it, I’m for it.

Whey/casein FTW.

Yo! Thanks to everyone sharing there inputs on there PWO shake.

Here’s what Ive come up with that I’ll try out for awhile.

20g whey
10g casein
36g comp carbs (from 1 cup oats)
35g dextros
5g creatine
Some berries for antioxidants

It tastes great!

I take this with 16 ounces fat free milk, it gives me 18g more protein and 24g more sugar. Also, the oats give me a lil extra protein too. It over shoots what I need but screw it. At least I’ll have enough.

The dextrose and creatine come from a Cell Tech shake I have just prior. I know, I know, Alot of people don’t like Cell Tech because it’s over priced. But you show me a better creatine on the market. It saves me the hassel of having to buy multiple things to support PWO nutrition. Cell Tech has that stuff included. Personally, I like it.

I’ll take this shake 2 times daily, In the morning after fasting all night, and PWO. It gives me a mix of whey/casein, simple/complex carbs, and my 10g creatine.

60g whey (not sure exactly what type of whey)
roughly 70g carbs (50% malto 50% dextrose)
10g BCAA
5g creatine
1 multi

If I low carb it then it’s 60g whey, 10g BCAA, and 30g glutamine.

Peri:

20g BCAA Excellence

Post:

LOW:
30g WheyStronger
40g glutamine
20g glycine
1 tsp cinnamon

or

MODERATE:
30g WheyStronger
5g glutamine
5g glycine
1 tsp cinnamon
2 cups frozen pineapple

or

HIGH:
30g WheyStronger
5g glutamine
5g glycine
1 tsp cinnamon
50g dextrose
2 Fenuplex

Depends on where I am at in the weekly cycle.

[quote]Trenchant wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
Trenchant wrote:

Too much evidence supporting the whey casein blend to drop it in favor of whey alone.

why would you want casein as part of the PWO shake?

On Mike Roussell’s site:
ABSTRACT

ABSTRACT

Kerksick, C.M., C.J. Rasmussen, S.L. Lancaster, B. Magu, P. Smith, C. Melton, M. Greenwood, A.L. Almada, C.P. Earnest, and R.B. Kreider. The effects of protein and amino acid supplementation on performance and training adaptations during ten weeks of resistance training. J. Strength Cond. Res. 20(3):643?653. 2006.?

The purpose of this study was to examine the effects of whey protein supplementation on body composition, muscular strength, muscular endurance, and anaerobic capacity during 10 weeks of resistance training. Thirty-six resistance-trained males (31.0 ± 8.0 years, 179.1 ± 8.0 cm, 84.0 ± 12.9 kg, 17.8 ± 6.6%) followed a 4 days-per-week split body part resistance training program for 10 weeks.

Three groups of supplements were randomly assigned, prior to the beginning of the exercise program, in a double-blind manner to all subjects: 48 g per day (g?d−1) carbohydrate placebo (P), 40 g?d−1 of whey protein + 8 g?d−1 of casein (WC), or 40 g?d−1 of whey protein + 3 g?d−1 branched-chain amino acids + 5 g?d−1 L-glutamine (WBG).

At 0, 5, and 10 weeks, subjects were tested for fasting blood samples, body mass, body composition using dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry (DEXA), 1 repetition maximum (1RM) bench and leg press, 80% 1RM maximal repetitions to fatigue for bench press and leg press, and 30-second Wingate anaerobic capacity tests.

No changes (p > 0.05) were noted in all groups for energy intake, training volume, blood parameters, and anaerobic capacity. WC experienced the greatest increases in DEXA lean mass (P = 0.0 ± 0.9; WC = 1.9 ± 0.6; WBG = −0.1 ± 0.3 kg, p < 0.05) and DEXA fat-free mass (P = 0.1 ± 1.0; WC = 1.8 ± 0.6; WBG = −0.1 ± 0.2 kg, p < 0.05).

Significant increases in 1RM bench press and leg press were observed in all groups after 10 weeks. In this study, the combination of whey and casein protein promoted the greatest increases in fat-free mass after 10 weeks of heavy resistance training.

Athletes, coaches, and nutritionists can use these findings to increase fat-free mass and to improve body composition during resistance training.

And from Berardi’s site:
Since the fast vs. slow debate focuses on whey (fast) vs. casein (slow), let’s address that research here. In studies by Boirie et al (1997) and Dangin et al (2001), it was shown that whey protein is better for up-regulating protein synthesis while casein protein is better for down-regulating protein breakdown.

Not much more has to be said about this since it’s been discussed about a thousand other times on this site alone. The take-home message from these studies is that a milk protein blend or a supplement containing whey + casein may be your best bet for body composition improvements.

I know poliqiun suggested it earlier this year, but I don’t know where. Anyway, those are the two studies off of the top of my head. I’m sure I can find more if I look.[/quote]

I can’t see where it says post workout. I’m sure he means a mix is best at all other times except post workout. If I’m wrong please quote where it says post workout as I’m a little dyslexic.

^^Exactly. Also from the roundtable on his site, Berardi says:

The next question is, why not whey and casein together? Well, combining whey and casein might lead to a slowing of whey absorption. In this case you’d be missing out on some of the protein synthesis that you could get otherwise.

Personally, I mix up a 50 gram whey shake and bring it to the gym with me. Immediately after my training I drink it down. Then, about 60 to 90 minutes later, I take in about 50 grams of casein (cottage cheese) with a bunch of carbs. Fair enough?

Just as an aside, to my knowledge CP doesn’t recommend casein PWO.

I don’t really understand milk PWO either.
Unless you are broke. Some people swear by it. Any other time it’s great. Fructose is crap PWO and fruit and honey, are you kidding me?? I don’t know where you guys get these great ideas from.

For me dex/malto/WMS are the ONLY worthwile carbs, and whey only acceptable protein PWO.

WMS so the trade off is you get carbs in quicker at the expense of delayed protein as you are waiting 20 mins for your whey. Also you get less insulin with WMS than with dex/mal/whey/bacc combo right??

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Surge + 5g creatine + 5g BCAA[/quote]

Best PWO shake IMO so far. Surge just not affordable in UK. Once in a while I get lucky on ebay. If only someone sorted a deal out for us…