T Nation

What's Wrong with These People?


#1

An Iranian human rights activist warns Sakineh Mohammadie Ashtiani, a mother of two, could be stoned to death at any moment under the terms of a death sentence handed down by Iranian authorities.

Only an international campaign designed to pressure the regime in Tehran can save her life, according to Mina Ahadi, head of the International Committee Against Stoning and the Death Penalty.

"Legally it's all over," Ahadi said Sunday. "It's a done deal. Sakineh can be stoned at any minute."

"That is why we have decided to start a very broad, international public movement. Only that can help."

Ashtiani, 42, will be buried up to her chest, according to an Amnesty International report citing the Iranian penal code. The stones that will be hurled at her will be large enough to cause pain but not so large as to kill her immediately.

Ashtiani, who is from the northern city of Tabriz, was convicted of adultery in 2006.

She was forced to confess after being subjected to 99 lashes, human rights lawyer Mohammad Mostafaei said Thursday in a telephone interview from Tehran.

She later retracted that confession and has denied wrongdoing. Her conviction was based not on evidence but on the determination of three out of five judges, Mostafaei said. She has asked forgiveness from the court but the judges refused to grant clemency.

Iran's supreme court upheld the conviction in 2007.

Mostafaei believes a language barrier prevented his client from fully comprehending court proceedings. Ashtiani is of Azerbaijani descent and speaks Turkish, not Farsi.

The circumstances of Ashtiani's case make it not an exception but the rule in Iran, according to Amnesty International, which tracks death penalty cases around the world.

"The majority of those sentenced to death by stoning are women, who suffer disproportionately from such punishment," the human rights group said in a 2008 report.

On Wednesday, Amnesty made a new call to the Iranian government to immediately halt all executions and commute all death sentences. The group has recorded 126 executions in Iran from the start of this year to June 6.

"The organization is also urging the authorities to review and repeal death penalty laws, to disclose full details of all death sentences and executions and to join the growing international trend towards abolition," the statement said.

Ahadi, who fled Iran in the early 1980s, told CNN that pressure from Amnesty and other organizations and individuals is likely the only way to save Ashtiani.

"Experience shows (that) ... when the pressure gets very high, the Islamic government starts to say something different," she said.

In Washington, the State Department has criticized the scheduled stoning, saying it raised serious concerns about human rights violations by the Iranian government.

"We have grave concerns that the punishment does not fit the alleged crime, " Assistant Secretary of State P.J. Crowley said Thursday. "For a modern society such as Iran, we think this raises significant human rights concerns."

Calling Iran's judicial system "disproportionate" in its treatment of women, Crowley said, "From the United States' standpoint, we don't think putting women to death for adultery is an appropriate punishment."

Human rights activists have been pushing the Islamic government to abolish stoning, arguing that women are not treated equally before the law in Iran and are especially vulnerable in the judicial system. A woman's testimony is worth half that of a man, they say.

Article 74 of the Iranian penal code requires at least four witnesses -- four men or three men and two women -- for an adulterer to receive a stoning sentence, said Ahadi, of the International Committee Against Stoning. But there were no witnesses in Ashtiani's case. Often, said Ahadi, husbands turn wives in to get out of a marriage.

Mostafaei said he could not understand how such a savage method of death could exist in the year 2010 or how an innocent woman could be taken from her son and daughter, who have written to the court pleading for their mother's life.

The public won't be allowed to witness the stoning, Mostafaei said, for fear of condemnation of such a brutal method. He is hoping there won't be an execution.

Mostafaei, who himself did jail time in the aftermath of the disputed presidential elections in June 2009, said he realizes the risk of speaking out for Ashtiani, for fighting for human rights. But he doesn't let that deter him.

He last saw Ashtiani five months ago behind bars in Tabriz. Since then, he said, he has been searching for a way to save her from the stones.


#2

The more pressing question is what’s wrong with us letting them live in this country. I could probably dig up a list of dead women and young girls killed by muslim fathers and husbands right here in Detroit and other American cities as well.

The treatment of women by these barbarians defies words. Truly.

Very very disturbing story.


#3

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
The more pressing question is what’s wrong with us letting them live in this country. I could probably dig up a list of dead women and young girls killed by muslim fathers and husbands right here in Detroit and other American cities as well.

The treatment of women by these barbarians defies words. Truly.

Very very disturbing story.[/quote]

? We’ve got a shitload of Muslims in NJ… they’re not known for killing their wives or daughters anymore than anyone else. Most of the time when they come here they seem to accept the way we do things.


#4

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
The more pressing question is what’s wrong with us letting them live in this country. I could probably dig up a list of dead women and young girls killed by muslim fathers and husbands right here in Detroit and other American cities as well.

The treatment of women by these barbarians defies words. Truly.

Very very disturbing story.[/quote]

? We’ve got a shitload of Muslims in NJ… they’re not known for killing their wives or daughters anymore than anyone else. Most of the time when they come here they seem to accept the way we do things. [/quote]
OK, I guess that wasn’t the point of your thread anyway. Putting aside the propriety of capital punishment for a minute, or stoning as the method, or adultery as a capital crime. I have never quite grasped the motivation for the disdain in which these people hold women. It’s one thing to stone people to death for immorality, but why is it usually women? I never got into that aspect when researching Islam years ago.

Especially for adultery. Where are all the men? And why all this sadistic bloodthirstiness. It’s not enough to kill them, you have to also make it as protracted and agonizing as possible? A defenseless woman? I dunno man. It gives me the willies just thinkin about it.


#5

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
The more pressing question is what’s wrong with us letting them live in this country. I could probably dig up a list of dead women and young girls killed by muslim fathers and husbands right here in Detroit and other American cities as well.

The treatment of women by these barbarians defies words. Truly.

Very very disturbing story.[/quote]

? We’ve got a shitload of Muslims in NJ… they’re not known for killing their wives or daughters anymore than anyone else. Most of the time when they come here they seem to accept the way we do things. [/quote]

We get them occasionally in the UK. They’re called ‘honour killings’ even though there’s nothing honourable about it. It’s not common, but it happens enough for people to know enough about it. Truely disgusting

As for the original article, barbarism at its worst


#6

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
The more pressing question is what’s wrong with us letting them live in this country. I could probably dig up a list of dead women and young girls killed by muslim fathers and husbands right here in Detroit and other American cities as well.

The treatment of women by these barbarians defies words. Truly.

Very very disturbing story.[/quote]

? We’ve got a shitload of Muslims in NJ… they’re not known for killing their wives or daughters anymore than anyone else. Most of the time when they come here they seem to accept the way we do things. [/quote]

We get them occasionally in the UK. They’re called ‘honour killings’ even though there’s nothing honourable about it. It’s not common, but it happens enough for people to know enough about it. Truely disgusting

As for the original article, barbarism at its worst[/quote]
We’ve had a bunch here in Detroit. Sometimes they flee to the middle east and sometimes they hang around and wait for the police.


#7

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
The more pressing question is what’s wrong with us letting them live in this country. I could probably dig up a list of dead women and young girls killed by muslim fathers and husbands right here in Detroit and other American cities as well.

The treatment of women by these barbarians defies words. Truly.

Very very disturbing story.[/quote]

They’re basically nuts. Islam makes 'em all nuts. Never should be allowed out of the ME, much less into the most moral and noble country in the history of the world.


#8

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#9

Treating women as inferior, then using word games to pretend that they are elevated above men but need to be “protected”. Gosh, I wonder were they get these crazy ideas from? Can’t be their batshit crazy religious leaders… can it?

Hmm…

What’s wrong is that they are brainwashed from an early age to unquestioningly believe the fairy tales their parents pass off as fact. There is no simple solution here, this mental poison is so deeply ingrained even most of the ones raised in a western country are affected by it.


#10

I like to think most honor-killings in America are the result of personal revenge wrapped in Islamist trappings. Shar’ia law prescribes tribunals to determine guilt or innocence, of which there are precious few in America (of the conservative Muslim kind).

On the plus side, it’s neat that Iran bends to international pressure. Or, at least, saves its most gruesome human rights violations for when the world press is no longer watching. Either way, it shows them to have SOME sense of shame.

Which begs the question: Is shame a symptom of rationality?


#11

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Treating women as inferior, then using word games to pretend that they are elevated above men but need to be “protected”. Gosh, I wonder were they get these crazy ideas from? Can’t be their batshit crazy religious leaders… can it? >>>[/quote]
No, but it can be their evil Islamic leaders. That wasn’t even a good thinly veiled try man, come on.


#12

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#13

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Treating women as inferior, then using word games to pretend that they are elevated above men but need to be “protected”. Gosh, I wonder were they get these crazy ideas from? Can’t be their batshit crazy religious leaders… can it? >>>[/quote]
No, but it can be their evil Islamic leaders. That wasn’t even a good thinly veiled try man, come on.[/quote]

What’d you mean?

Don’t ALL religions endorse stoning?[/quote]

Mostly the Abrahamic ones.

I guess fire wood was scarce while they had lots of stones?


#14

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Treating women as inferior, then using word games to pretend that they are elevated above men but need to be “protected”. Gosh, I wonder were they get these crazy ideas from? Can’t be their batshit crazy religious leaders… can it? >>>[/quote]
No, but it can be their evil Islamic leaders. That wasn’t even a good thinly veiled try man, come on.[/quote]

What’d you mean?

Don’t ALL religions endorse stoning?[/quote]
Somewhere along the way I grew out of the tendency to anger over things like this.


#15

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#16

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Treating women as inferior, then using word games to pretend that they are elevated above men but need to be “protected”. Gosh, I wonder were they get these crazy ideas from? Can’t be their batshit crazy religious leaders… can it? >>>[/quote]
No, but it can be their evil Islamic leaders. That wasn’t even a good thinly veiled try man, come on.[/quote]

What’d you mean?

Don’t ALL religions endorse stoning?[/quote]
Somewhere along the way I grew out of the tendency to anger over things like this.[/quote]

You and I are on the same page, right? Sometimes my sarcasm doesn’t come across…[/quote]

count me in on that as well . . .


#17

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Treating women as inferior, then using word games to pretend that they are elevated above men but need to be “protected”. Gosh, I wonder were they get these crazy ideas from? Can’t be their batshit crazy religious leaders… can it? >>>[/quote]
No, but it can be their evil Islamic leaders. That wasn’t even a good thinly veiled try man, come on.[/quote]

What’d you mean?

Don’t ALL religions endorse stoning?[/quote]
Somewhere along the way I grew out of the tendency to anger over things like this.[/quote]

You and I are on the same page, right? Sometimes my sarcasm doesn’t come across…[/quote]

I don’t think you understand what I meant either. The people aren’t inherently crazy, it’s growing up with the lies that form Islam (propagated by their religious leaders) that make them act as they do.

Did I miss something?


#18

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Treating women as inferior, then using word games to pretend that they are elevated above men but need to be “protected”. Gosh, I wonder were they get these crazy ideas from? Can’t be their batshit crazy religious leaders… can it? >>>[/quote]
No, but it can be their evil Islamic leaders. That wasn’t even a good thinly veiled try man, come on.[/quote]

What’d you mean?

Don’t ALL religions endorse stoning?[/quote]
Somewhere along the way I grew out of the tendency to anger over things like this.[/quote]

You and I are on the same page, right? Sometimes my sarcasm doesn’t come across…[/quote]
Oh yeah, I knew what you meant =]


#19

[quote]Makavali wrote:
<<< I don’t think you understand what I meant either. The people aren’t inherently crazy, it’s growing up with the lies that form Islam (propagated by their religious leaders) that make them act as they do.

Did I miss something?[/quote]
You attempted to misrepresent statements I had made elsewhere in this forum and draw an at least somewhat familial parallel between what I believe and the unholy blasphemous views of these female despising barbarians. A falsehood I am quite used to with people like you.

That said, I agree. They are not crazy. They are evil. Here’s a related development.


#20

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Treating women as inferior, then using word games to pretend that they are elevated above men but need to be “protected”. Gosh, I wonder were they get these crazy ideas from? Can’t be their batshit crazy religious leaders… can it? >>>[/quote]
No, but it can be their evil Islamic leaders. That wasn’t even a good thinly veiled try man, come on.[/quote]

What’d you mean?

Don’t ALL religions endorse stoning?[/quote]
Somewhere along the way I grew out of the tendency to anger over things like this.[/quote]

You and I are on the same page, right? Sometimes my sarcasm doesn’t come across…[/quote]

I don’t think you understand what I meant either. The people aren’t inherently crazy, it’s growing up with the lies that form Islam (propagated by their religious leaders) that make them act as they do.

Did I miss something?[/quote]

500% correct - I grew up a muslim in a muslim country (one of the less batshit crazy ones) and even there, the religion dictated most aspects of life.

It was hammered into us twice a day at least, until we were completely brainwashed. Perfectly nice people and perfectly nice children turned into people who commit horrendous acts (stoning etc)