T Nation

whats wrong with being wrong?

when someone says something and he’s wrong, does it mean he is stupid, a show-off, simple minded or whatever?

I think people forget they are wrong too.

Stop lashing at people who don’t know something.

you too were living on soy once.

I can’t understand that. realy.

What the hell am I talking about?

I asked a question here at a forum. I may have made some ignorant mistakes in my question I’m not Einstein yet but hey, Im here for knowledge so I cant know already everything right?
Plus, my english vocabulary sucks.

That was the response for my question:

"What I don’t like about your question is that you seem to quote something you heard without really understanding anything about the training processes (or even the quote you use itself!). "

yes. (maybe) you are right. but thats why Im asking …!

“when I read that part of your post I immediately was reminded of my favorite expression: “Complexity is the language of the simple minds””

no, just of the missunderstood

And allthogh I got a great response for my question here’s how it ended:
"Phew, that’s enough for today. I must congratulate you; I think that it’s the first time that a post enraged me! I know that you meant well, probably believed what you said. But deep down I have the feeling that you only wanted to sound intelligent and show that you know something. Good day and thanks for your participation. "

What the fuck?

That left such a bad taste in my mouth… even if you disagree or think I’m totally off. so what? you know, I’m not the first to be wrong.

If my question was such a waste of time and an ignorant rant then why answer it with such detailed explenation?
just made me feel like shit.
I’ll get over it though :slight_smile:

S-man

Now you see what I mean when I say that this is a hostile environment? One little photo from me brought a firestorm of criticism (not lacking in spite I might add), and all it took for me to look at things differently was one really intelligent coach to interact with me and give me REAL feedback on its effectiveness or lack thereof. I guess my point is, I feel your pain bro!

Good post. You’ve brought up a very important problem with these forums, in my opinion. We’re breeding elitists.

The negative responses many get are usually because the poster is deemed lazy. For example, a few weeks ago T-mag ran an article on trap training complete with a full workout program. This made the second or third trap specialization article T-mag has published. That same week, someone posts asking for a trap program.

Now think about it: the guy had to go to T-mag, ignore the current issue, ignore the search engine, ignore the previous issues section, etc to reach the forum. There he posts the question, once again missing the search engine and links to the current and previous issues. This makes many people deem that person lazy and/or dumb. It doesn’t help if he refuses to write in a coherent way.

And I for one don’t understand how someone can post on the T-mag forum without reading T-mag. That’s just asking for it.

That’s usually where the harshness comes from. Just an observation.

I hear you. Unfortunately, people often forget that they were once new here and instead of politely directing people in the right direction, they’ll end up blasting them for not following forum etiquette.

I have no problem with the forum having a general etiquette that one is supposed to follow, but I think everyone deserves a reasonable chance to learn what that is.

  1. Do a search before you ask
  2. Use proper grammar (if English is your second language - I would state this as it allows you a bit more slack)
  3. Respond to threads that you start

There is an excellent thread by Joel, who got a little excited one day, but the information contained in it is excellent if you’d like to know how things are best done on the forum here -it was published in Reader Mail.

But I agree, that sometimes people will hide behind their cover and behave arrogantly and elitist and this does not improve the quality of the board because it may turn off some excellent people.

Overall, I think if people were a little more thick-skinned and some of the folks here were a little more understanding and helpful, we’d all be better off.

Here is the best advice I’ve seen so far in regards to posting on this forum. Yes, it comes off as harsh, but please remember that this was in the middle of an old post and was very much a legitimate answer to what was going on in that thread. Also, I asked Joel right before I posted this and he was cool with me reposting it. So here goes.

[quote] Joel Marion wrote:

Suggested Rules for Posting on the T-Forum

Get to the point. Don’t say more than you have to or most people won’t read it.

If you have nothing constructive to add, shut up.

If you have not done your homework, shut up.

If you are not competent on a subject, inquire, do not “tell.”

Become familiar with T-mag before you post on their message board.

If you are an idiot, shut up.

If your English is choppy and incoherent and English is not your first language, please state that in your post.

If your English is choppy and incoherent and English is your first language, shut up.

If you don’t agree with someone’s views; please give an explanation as to “why” they are incorrect. If you cannot do this, shut up.

If your only reason for being “right” is that you can lift more, are bigger, older, or have a higher level of formal education than the person you disagree with, shut up.

If you are an arrogant, close-minded ass, shut up.

If you can’t disagree with someone without personally attacking them, shut up.

If you are a newbie (someone who is new to training, nutrition, etc.) please read the FAQ section before offering advice and/or posting general questions that are answered there.

Don’t post a question if you’re never going to check for the responses. You’re wasting everyone’s valuable time. Participate in the threads you start.

If people take the time to respond in depth to your question, say “thank you.” It isn’t anyone’s obligation to be here.

If your post has nothing to do with Training or Nutrition, don’t post it on the Training and Nutrition board.

If you can’t leave your name, shut up. [/quote]

If you have not done your homework, shut up.

being here IS doing my homework.

I’m a strong believer in the search engine, one of the reasons I went at least a year of reading t-mag without ever writing a post. But part of posting here is wanting to be known as a participant in the t-community and not just a lurker.

It’s great if you’re an expert and you can just choose between answering questions and telling people to do a search, but if you are someone who is learning and trying to interact with the t-community, it’s a fine line between always reading past posts and every once in a while, just opening a topic up for re/discussion. My 2 cents.

Anderson, I remember readig for about 6 months before I ever posted. I was scared silly I would be skewered for not doing my homework or asking a stupid question. We really do come across like we’re a bunch of know-it-all spolied brats sometimes, me definitely included.

“If you are an arrogant, close-minded ass, shut up.”

Man, that statement is dripping with irony.

Hey S-man et al,
There is nothing wrong with being wrong, it teaches great life lessons. I haven’t asked a training question yet…not because I’m a know it all, but because of all the FREE information here. I have personally read EVERY article and (tried some of them) available here and printed off 1-2 reams of paper worth of articles. I have also learned an incredible amount from other peoples forum questions.
I get annoyed to no end when people PMS over the weeds, when the flowers can be easily seen.
It is easy to rip people up, but if you are going to respond to questions, take the attitude of a teacher. Then ask yourself what kind of teacher you want to be.
You have very little chance of correcting people or changing their opinions if you are not moderately decent or respectful.
Peace,
T-Ren
" It takes a big man to cry…It takes an even bigger man to laugh at him." 8D Jack Handy SNL

Glute:
Shrug it off. Some people have sad and pathetic little lives and derive value from attacking others. It reflects on them more than you. Also, I find your general English skills to be fairly decent and at very least understandable.

Everyone:
If a post is so stupid that it doesn’t merit a response, then don’t respond. Why waste your time typing a note about how stupid a post is? If you want to direct someone to the search engine then by all means go ahead, but I see way too many posts that people seem to write just to attack someone-- or anyone. People get way too pissy sometimes.

My two cents.

Tek, I can see your point, but it is not just based on whether or not someone has done their homework. I simply posted a photo, not realizing what I was stirring up. What followed was a solid stream of insults for over a week! Real nice welcome to T-nation, lemme tell ya! No biggie though… I moved on, and I decided not to let the hostiles drive me out. Just pointing out though, that this is a tough crowd… Period!

I don’t know, JP, I think your Swiss ball post criticism was to be expected. You come to T-mag and post a pic of yourself (or someone else, don’t recall) standing on a Swiss ball, the very thing many T-mag writers like Ian King have used for years as an example of gym foolishness. So some research on your part, or more familiarity with T-mag, might have saved you that confrontation.

TEK, although you’d wouldn’t catch me within 50 feet of a Swiss ball, I applaud jp for putting a picture up, taking criticism, answering the criticism, learning and moving on with more information than he had to start. Isn’t that what T-Mag and being a T-Man is all about? With the logic I’m seeing here, there would be no posts because we can find all the answers with the search engine. How many truly unique posts do you see here anymore?

Ok, I agree that being on the forum is doing your homework. Obviously there are many statements in Joel’s quote than when taken as just a single suggestion out of the context of the whole message could be construed as ironic or potentially wrong.

The point I’m trying to make is that this forum basically assumes that you have at least been reading T-Mag for a while and if you haven’t, you should.

I realize that the search engine doesn’t always work very well. Also, no one expects you to be right all of the time. I’ve messed up more than enough around here asking dumb questions.

My main purpose with responding here was to just point you in the right direction and provide as much useful information as possible.

I want to stress that I got a great response for my question from the guy, maybe I should be more thick-skinned and suck it up.

just got VERY discouraged.

thanks for the help anyways.

Well, since I’m probably one of the worse offenders when it comes to flaming people for asking silly questions, I’ll briefly state my reasons for doing so:

95 times out of a hundred, a person gets flamed for one of two reasons: either the post is ignorant (i.e., it could have been answered by a simple search or, as TEK has pointed out above, just reading T-mag) or the poster makes absolutely no attempt to render their question/comment into intelligible English.

So why flame these people? Because experience has shown that, left unflamed, they’ll be back. In fact, they’ll be back in droves, asking all kinds of illiterate, inane things and crowding the more legitimate questions off the board. To name only one example (and yes, I’m going to pick on him, sorry), just look at what happened with bobopunx a little while back. The guy posted something like 30-40 questions, ALL AT ONCE, all of which could have been answered by reading and just waiting for some experience to accumulate. It wasn’t until a few of us told him to shut up (repeatedly) that he got a clue and backed off a bit.

I understand that he wants to learn, and that’s great. And I understand that part of that learning process is asking questions here and seeking clarification. That’s great, too. But there is a cut-off point, and there is a limit. No one’s going to call you on a typo or two in your text. But if your whole post is so riddled with spelling and grammar errors that it makes it difficult to read, then yes, you can expect some harsh comments. And - generally speaking - no one’s going to flame you for asking a newbie question if it’s obvious that you’ve done some reading on your own and are just confused about a point or two. But if you come on here saying “What’s the best program for mass?” or giving out advice that’s just wrong (do a search for “sternocleidomastoid” or “Vince Basile” to see what I’m talking about), then you’re gonna have problems.

Personally, I don’t see this as a bad thing. Perhaps the atmosphere is a little intimidating around here, but so what? People who know what they’re about will gravitate towards T-mag; those who don’t - and don’t really care to learn - won’t.

I think when someone posts something stupid or ignorant etc. Whatever you beef is with what they put down you can tell them or critize them without being a dick. For instance telling the person that “hey this week there was a trap program in the current issue of t-mag.” Instead of “you fucking ass-hat there is a trap program in the current issue next time read the fucking magazine before you post shit for brains, also try using the search engine before you fucking waste my time!” While I admit it’s much more statisfying and fun to use creative profanity it just lowers the whole essence of the boards…plus your being a dick. And that’s my mantra “don’t be a dick”. We already have enough of them. Somepeople just like to pump themselves up by putting others down and acting like tough guys. Which is a shame. As always becare with any political posts. Hehehhe. Also I’ve had limited success with the search engine. Lastly isn’t it the purpose of the boards to educate? Henceforth newbies asking questions should be welcomed. Ciao. :slight_smile:

nkeago

They (and you know who they are) say it takes a big man to admit he’s wrong. In order to get big according to what they (and you know who they are) say you have to be wrong and then admit to it.

Keeping that in mind there isn’t anything wrong with being wrong, just admit it and consider it part of your training.