T Nation

What's The Real Dea?


I must start this off by saying that this is by far the greatest forum Ive ever joined!!! The info thats obtained here is of great value, especially as a newbie!!!

Since Ive joined, ive gained great knowlege and understanding on some things. Its funny how knowlege works though, the more you know, the more you want to know!!!

Anyway, this question popped in my mind while meditating on what ive learned in the past few days!! It stems from the infinate number of conflicting opinions that i hear all the time, and that is....WHATS THE REAL DEAL!!!

I mean, there have been numerous amounts of people of all ages, skinny, fat, or in between, too young, too old, not enough knowlege, too much knowlege(over thinkers), vets, newbies, and the list goes on of people who have done cycles of AAS!

The real question is, if someones objective is to gain a better body than what they have right now, and does a cycle in the most educated and safest way for them at the moment, does this list of things above really matter?

Of course, there are risk factors for everyone, seasoned vets and newbies alike! But isnt cycling in the most educated and safest way at the moment the thing that seperates a vet from a newbie?

Now you may say, it all depends on a persons definition of safe and educated. So lets define them: Educated in my own words means, to have aquired proficient knowlege on a particular subject enabling them to operate in this subject with clear perception. Safe in my own words mean, to be as far away from harm or danger that is mentally possible.

If this is the case, whats the big deal, for example with a person with 3-5 years experience in the gym who's made some ok gains, who eats ok but not perfectly, whos lifts are average or slightly above, who has educated himself on the knowlege of which AAS to take and the diet he must follow for his particlar goals, and how to do PCT, who's mentally stable, doing a simple beginner's cycle to test the waters? Is there really something wrong with this?

Im asking because it occured to me, that in some way, we are all in the same boat when it comes to the safety of using AAS! I mean, someone who has been cycling for 40 years, could rightfully say that a person who's been cycling for 10 years doesnt have proper knowlege to be cycling, just like a person who has cycled 7 times could say to a beginner that he is not ready to cycle!

Anyway, i dont wanna go on and on, but you get my drift! What are your thoughts?


That's too many words.

I'll pick this paragraph to start. This doesn't sound right to me.

The amount of cycles run doesn't qualify someone as a vet, nor does it mean that person can give sound advice. If someone has run 40 cycles, and suffered gyno, and lost all gains, gotten fat, mixed the wrong steroids, etc., then the only things he could offer is what not to do.

Alternatively, if someone has researched, has a solid foundation, diet and training, etc, then their first and subsequent cycles are going to be successful for those reasons. Vet or not.

This forum allows for those who want to be successful, be that much more successful if the proper advice is heeded by those that have been there and done that.


To be honest, the only reason there are several caveats given to starting a cycle is to make sure you will do it right. The exception to this is sex and age - you need to be at least 21 (preferably older) and male, otherwise you start getting into the realm of long term health issues.

However, for adult males, there is no other "downside." The reason you see people suggesting that you have a certain amount of training experience is to ensure that you will do the cycle properly, with all the necessary background information, a good routine/diet while on, and proper dosages etc.

The problem is, there are very few people who overlap in the realms of a) new to lifting and b) knowledgable about lifting/AAS, so you have very few legit candidates to serve as examples of people who successfully used AAS before reaching their natural plateau.


I wholeheartedly agree with 5.0 and fitnessfan! However, my question to 5.0 is, what does qualifiy someone to be a vet when it comes to AAS?

Also, fitnessfan if what you said is true, then why dont people stick to giving sound advice from knowlege and experience about AAS?

Better yet, can anyone say that they waited until their genetics just would absolutely not let them grow anymore to use AAS ?

Now Im not being the devils advocte here, im asking strictly for my own understanding!


Veteran status is something that comes with time. You can clearly see here who the vets are, without me naming any of them. And they aren't the ones with the snide one liners. At least not all the time. It's a simple matter of worthwhile knowledge and experience, and a willingness to share that knowledge and experience.