T Nation

Whats the point?

OK…first don’t take this question the wrong way, I am just trying to educate myself. Reading recent threads about stopping steriod use, I am seeing that you lose most of your gains (so it seems, I could be wrong) after you stop using AS. My question is, if this is true, whats the point? If it isn’t, what is the trick to keeping a large portion of what you gain? I have been natural for 7 years, and I am contemplating something stronger than andro/nandro, but if you lose everything you put on after you quit using…why bother? Please educate me here guys…am I off base? THANKS!

It depends on what kind of androgen is used, whether or not it reduces into estradiol, and how severely it suppresses natural testosterone production. If you take an androgen that reduces into estrogen, and are on it for a prolonged period of time; and then suddenly stop taking the androgen, you will lose your gains. Why? First of all, due to testosterone suppression you will not have a high enough androgen level to sustain the gains. Second of all, you will have estradiol leftover in your system and virtually no androgens, so your muscles may become very soft and you are at risk of getting gyno as well at this point. But if you do a cycle of something like winstrol, and keep it reasonably short, you can expect to keep most, if not all, of your gains. But if you’re going to use something like Testosterone Enanthate, Anadrol, or Dianabol; you better have an anti-estrogen and some clomid and/or HCG on hand or else you may end up soft and mushy - with tits as an added bonus - at the end of your cycle.

With sense applied to facets such as nutrition, training intensity, restoration of gonadic function (if applicable) etc etc after a cycle you don’t lose most of your muscle gains. What you will lose is any excess water which the steroid use may have caused you to hold. As long as you understand that this part of the “gain” during the cycle is water and not quality muscle then you won’t be disappointed.

You do not lose all gains when “off cycle”. If you implement Clomid properly, eat right both on and off cycle, train with the same intensity, you can keep 70% or so of your gains. I use AS only as tool to increase my strength for PL Competitions. I do not need to look like Arnold…I already do. HEHEHE

My understanding of human physiology, is that one of the greatest limiting factors of muscle growth isn’t with the fibers themselves but of the connective-tissue (the 'mysiums) that incases them. By adding steroids to the mix, one of the benefits they provide, is forcing the cell to volumize and and in turn strech these tissues. I think this is called the “Bag theory” and if I’m not mistaken a Dr. named MIllwood or MIllward hypothesizes this.

Guys, I appreciate the responses. So if I was to do a 2 on 4 off cycle, I would be minimizing my chances of gyno, as well as testicular shutdown, and have a good shot at keeping about 70% of what I gain? As I said, I have been at this for 7 years…so I am not looking for “overnight results” just looking for an added advantage…at 6’5" 245 I have good size, just wouldn’t mind getting to say 265-270 over the next 4 to 6 months. Is 20 to 25 pounds over 6 months reasonable? or am I shooting too high? While taking minimum risks with my body of course!

I don’t really agree with any of the above
replies.

Reason: It doesn’t matter what kind of steroid
you use. IT does matter (to a point) what you
do after the cycle, but I think your question
is of a larger scope: “what happens once I quit
completely?”

I’ll tell you: You lose whatever you weren’t
supposed to have gained had you been training
naturally. If your potential is 220lbs and
you’re carrying 250 while juicing, be assured
you will lose those 30 lbs no matter what you
do. clomid. HCG, anti-aromatase drugs won’t help you keep any of it.

A positive thing though is that you’ll get to
your potential in much shorter time. It might take you two-three years to get to that 250 lbs
and another 6-18 months to drop 30 lbs. If you
train naturally, getting to the balance of 220
may take considerably longer.

Is it worth foing? A good answer would be
“it depends” because there are too many variables to consider to give a more definite
asnwer. So, instead I’ll say, it was worth it
for someone I know.

I hope this helps!
/Dmitry

Whopper, why don’t you stop slacking and start reading past issues about steroid use? LOL! :slight_smile: I think there have been some good articles about how to make good gains and keep the gains when you come off the cycle. I know Nelson Montana did that one article about Steroids for Health. And I think Brock had a good one before too! What the hell do you need to get bigger for? You’re already a big mofo! Save some size for the little guys!

If you do a 2 on / 4off cycle for 6 months; I would guess you would put on more than 25lbs. I just finished a 6 week cycle of 75mg Tren EOD and 500mg/week of Test and I put on 23lbs…Good Luck

When you are natural, your body has a “set point” where if you stop working out for a while, and start again, it won’t be that hard to get back to that “set point.”(Muscle Memory) When you do a cycle of AS, you move up that set point in weight.

Water weight is what most people refer to when they say you’ll lose it all. If you take that into consideration you don’t lose it all. I asked a question about going natural a few days ago. I started fooling around with steroids 3 years ago at 6’4 185. I peaked at a bloated 260 and am 240 now at a lower dose. I’m a lot leaner and holding gallons less water. I suspect I’ll end up around 225 when I’m done and build from there. Not to advocate using when young, but I just turned 21 so even though I could’ve gotten hear natural, I fast forwarded a few years.

I know a few older BBers that juiced back in the day. They still look like BBers even though one of them rarely trains and neither has used AAS in years. Unless you get really huge you will keep a good portion of the muscle even if you quit or slack off training. I suppose if you cut down on eating right you’d lose a bunch of it, but these guys don’t miss many meals. I do think that rumors of losing most of your gains are definitely started because of the water weight you pick up when you use a bunch of testosterone, you piss it off pretty quickly (and look better) once you come off.