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What's the Point of Heavy Weight Training?

If force is determined by mass x accleration then what is the point of Heavy weight training. Wouldnt it make more sense to just increase muscle and focus on explosive exercises? Finally strength wise would doing exercises with your oponents weight make more sense than heavy strength work.

Is tonnage more important than maximal strength and if so in what type of set rep range should complexes be used? Im hoping Xen could chime im sorry for being a dick a little while back with the whole Waterbury thing. Im just trying to figure this out.

[quote]drewh wrote:
If force is determined by mass x accleration then what is the point of Heavy weight training. Wouldnt it make more sense to just increase muscle and focus on explosive exercises? Finally strength wise would doing exercises with your oponents weight make more sense than heavy strength work. Is tonnage more important than maximal strength and if so in what type of set rep range should complexes be used? Im hoping Xen could chime im sorry for being a dick a little while back with the whole Waterbury thing. Im just trying to figure this out.[/quote]

Well, if force is mass x acceleration, why prioritise acceleration, when both are mathematically equal in the production of force?
IMO training both would benefit, which means training the bif three and their variations for max weight in the 1 - 5 rep range.
Add in oly lifts, and plyo work, and more explosive type of movements…

Would it make sense for what purpose? Are you an mma fighter, competitive, or just training for your own enjoyment, self defense, what??
I don’t think it would be of much advantage to just train with a weight equivalent of your weight class, cause most often all a large majority of your oponents weight may be on you, but in an awkward angle, i.e. he won’t lie flat on the floor and allow you to deadlift his weight like you trained with in the gym…

And what do the terms tonnage and maximal strength even mean?
And now you are talking bout complexes.

Force =ma. Lets examine with some simple multiplication.

(2m)a=2F (doubling mass/adding more weight)

m(2a)=2F (doubling acceleration/ Starting and stopping your lifts faster)

Both have the same effect on increasing the force of the lift, but the human body is slightly more complicated. When you lift heavy weight it doesn’t move fast. If your goal is to improve your striking through weight training you’d probable be better off lifting a medium sized weight at a faster speed. This way you get near the same force, but its due to the acceleration, which is the part your interested in. If your goal is to apply as much force as possible in a choke hold, lifting heavier weights would probable be the better option, because your goal is a greater total force applied.

[quote]BrownTrout wrote:
Force =ma. Lets examine with some simple multiplication.

(2m)a=2F (doubling mass/adding more weight)

m(2a)=2F (doubling acceleration/ Starting and stopping your lifts faster)

Both have the same effect on increasing the force of the lift, but the human body is slightly more complicated. When you lift heavy weight it doesn’t move fast. If your goal is to improve your striking through weight training you’d probable be better off lifting a medium sized weight at a faster speed. This way you get near the same force, but its due to the acceleration, which is the part your interested in. If your goal is to apply as much force as possible in a choke hold, lifting heavier weights would probable be the better option, because your goal is a greater total force applied.
[/quote]

Isn’t this slightly flawed.

But if you lift the heavy weight as fast as you can you are still training your body for maxial acceleration. Just because bar speed isn’t fast doesn’t mean you’re not training to be fast. If the intent is max possible speed you still hit the high CNS in the correct way to increase speed.

Having said this the best thing is probably the time honoured combination of maximal strength and dynamic work.

In answer to the OP I’ve got a question: why would you want to be bigger without being stronger?

[quote]drewh wrote:
If force is determined by mass x accleration then what is the point of Heavy weight training. Wouldnt it make more sense to just increase muscle and focus on explosive exercises?
[/quote]

Yes, in an absolute sense. In other words, if you had no restrictions placed on you (like a weight class) and just wanted to maximize your power, then yes adding substantial muscle mass while continuing to focus on being able to explosively (and technically) express your strength would make the most sense.

Most competitive fighters want to stay within a given weight class though, so for them an all out attempt to build muscle probably wouldn’t be their best bet (unless maybe they were severely lacking and over fat to begin with).

Not for the development of maximal strength, but partner resisted exercises can be a fantastic means of developing strength endurance (the ability to generate high levels of force for extended periods of time), isometric strength (which is heavily present in grappling, especially in terms of the gripping muscles), and possibly explosiveness (depends on the exercise of course).

[quote]
Is tonnage more important than maximal strength and if so in what type of set rep range should complexes be used? Im hoping Xen could chime im sorry for being a dick a little while back with the whole Waterbury thing. Im just trying to figure this out.[/quote]

Yes, and no. How’s that for an answer. :stuck_out_tongue:

Maximal strength is very important to a fighter because being able to literally overpower your opponent is a huge advantage. It also is the one athletic attribute which will noticeably enhance all other athletic attributes (esplosiveness, speed, endurance, balance, etc…).

However, strength endurance is also extremely important. If you can produce really, really high levels of force, but have no strength endurance, then all someone has to do is be able to wade out the storm and let you burn yourself out and they’ll be able to easily overpower you.

Having both is the best bet if you want to maximize performance.

Also to add to what I said above. The need for maximal force work changes over training age. A guy squatting 2X bodyweight won’t see as much of a performance increase from getting stronger as he will from plyos, dynamic lifting or fitness work.

As he/she is already reaching diminishing returns from training that part of the force curve. He/she is probably better off working harder on other attributes in limited conditioning time and working to maintain the strength attained.