The deadlift is the most flexible lift I’ve ever seen. I’ve seen guys who can just pull 600lbs without ever having lifted a day in their life, but yet there’s still people out there who weigh 180lbs, but cant budge 250lbs off the floor. It’s really fucking crazy to me! This phenomenon (I’m calling it that) seems to be exclusive to deadlifts. I wonder why this is.
[quote]Terry Gibbs wrote:
[quote]ape288 wrote:
A 405lb DL is pretty easily achieved by almost any male who trains consistently for a couple years, imo.[/quote]
I used to think that, then read about Don Blue who pulled 500 first time he tried, (weighed around 145), so there are average Joes and athletes, depends which gorup you want to be in
King of Average Joes, or a schmuck athlete
big frog little pool, or small frog big pool, (lesson for life right there)[/quote]
Why did the story of one man who was likely gifted at deadlifting lower what you perceived as the potential for those who are not so gifted? I’m not understanding the pertinence of your anecdote.
It’s simple. The OP asked if a 405lb DL is “good” for a man of average weight. I say no. I say this because too large of a percentage of the male population is capable of achieving this number in, what would be considered in the strength training world, a relatively short period of time. Examples of clueless people in gyms not making progress doesn’t change the fact that when you put a guy on a proper beginner/intermediate program, he’ll most likely hit the 4 plate mark in a couple of years at the most.
When a large percentage of the population is POTENTIALLY capable of achieving something, I don’t see how it can be considered “good.”
[quote]ape288 wrote:
A 405lb DL is pretty easily achieved by almost any male who trains consistently for a couple years, imo.[/quote]
I think a couple years is even a bit gracious, to be honest, especially for anyone supra-148. I think if someone actually trains hard and smart that it’s achievable in a year or a year-and-a-half. The problem is people just don’t train smart. When I get to 405 soon it will be just under 2 years, but I’ll be the first to admit that the vast majority of that two years was extremely inefficient training. If I actually had intelligent training sessions I think I’d have another 75 pounds on my deadlift right now.
405 is a marker, sure. At 175, it isn’t “bad”. But more importantly…
You’re cutting for a physique comp. Stop worrying about a strength movement that isn’t ideal for hypertrophy, generally speaking.
And if you ARE really concerned with strength/powerlifting (judging by the fact you posted this in the PL forum), then no, a 4 plate DL at your weight isn’t good.
[quote]ape288 wrote:
[quote]sexyxe wrote:
To people that say 4plates is something people achieve easily, they are deluded. Go to any gym to see for yourself to know that’s a pretty note worthy accomplishment.
However for your height and weight, it isn’t anything special. 5plates is a decent lift. [/quote]
That’s not really a good argument against what I said. Hardly any of those gym members are training consistently, properly, or with any purpose. Thus, they make the achievement of a 4 plate DL seem difficult. However, if you took that same group of guys and had them do exactly what I told them to do for a year or 2, I would wager that the majority of them would be able to DL 405 lbs. So, yes, to me, that makes the accomplishment “readily achievable.” You just have to do a few things right for a little while, but they would almost all be capable of it in relatively short order.[/quote]
I think we are on opposite ends here. That’s my point too. People don’t train consistently and smart therefore don’t hit it.
Just because people are capable of it, but don’t do it, that makes it somewhat ‘special’. Until they do, and everyone can, it is an achievement.
ape, until I saw dan Blue do his 500, Bridges bench 380 @ 148 when 17, McDonald do 300 first time he benched, I could waste my time trying to be a serious lifter …after that I kept it in perspective, just finished my degree, got on with my career and made some money,
and having just anounced at my first comp in more than 25years today, I don’t regret it a bit
now I can travel anywhere to any masters comp at time and have fun
unless you are chasing the big guys at the pointy end it does not matter what anyone else lifts
and to the OP again …no
[quote]sexyxe wrote:
I think we are on opposite ends here. That’s my point too. People don’t train consistently and smart therefore don’t hit it.
Just because people are capable of it, but don’t do it, that makes it somewhat ‘special’. Until they do, and everyone can, it is an achievement.
[/quote]
I guess I just don’t see it that way. I don’t think something can be classified as good, meaning it’s obviously above average, until the average man is no longer capable of achieving it.
Deadlifting 405 is like running a 5k. Most untrained people on the street can’t do it, but if they train at it for a little while they’ll almost all be capable of it. And then people will give them a pat on the back.
But deadlifting 500 or 600 - that’s like running a marathon. No untrained person is capable of achieving it; it takes long periods of focused, dedicated training to achieve; and some people, no matter how hard and smart they train, will simply be incapable of achieving it.
That’s all I’m saying, but I see where you’re coming from.
[quote]Terry Gibbs wrote:
ape, until I saw dan Blue do his 500, Bridges bench 380 @ 148 when 17, McDonald do 300 first time he benched, I could waste my time trying to be a serious lifter …after that I kept it in perspective, just finished my degree, got on with my career and made some money,
and having just anounced at my first comp in more than 25years today, I don’t regret it a bit
now I can travel anywhere to any masters comp at time and have fun
unless you are chasing the big guys at the pointy end it does not matter what anyone else lifts
and to the OP again …no
[/quote]
lol that’s one way to look at it
I understand my 405 is not a good lift when looking at it in a powerlifting meet for say… Was just more or less curious if it was a decent lift for someone that hasn’t been training for it,all that long. I’ve been lifting consistently now for 17 months. I’ve been doing deadlifts now for about a year consistently twice a week. I know you typically lose some strength when cutting weight, but in my case I’m gaining strength. Maybe due to my strict diet im on for the show.
[quote]ksrcrider wrote:
I understand my 405 is not a good lift when looking at it in a powerlifting meet for say… Was just more or less curious if it was a decent lift for someone that hasn’t been training for it,all that long. I’ve been lifting consistently now for 17 months. I’ve been doing deadlifts now for about a year consistently twice a week. I know you typically lose some strength when cutting weight, but in my case I’m gaining strength. Maybe due to my strict diet im on for the show. [/quote]
For a newbie, it’s not uncommon at all to gain a lot of strength while losing fat.
For the circumstances you laid out, that’s about average. That’s not to say easy or not an accomplishment, but as others have been saying anyone that works hard at it for a year or two can accomplish it.
Ok. thanks for all the feedback you guys gave me. I appreciate it.
Mate I’m very similar to you. Same weight same height and I pull 405 for three (don’t know what the 1RM is). Now if I talk to the powerlifters at my gym they’ll say it’s ‘decent’ but nothing to get excited about. However if i talk to the kids at my high school they are going consider it very good. Now I would like to listen to the people that are going to challenge me to lift more, the ones that tell me to improve. As you seem to be more concerned with hypertrophy who really cares.
[quote]ksrcrider wrote:
I understand my 405 is not a good lift when looking at it in a powerlifting meet for say… Was just more or less curious if it was a decent lift for someone that hasn’t been training for it,all that long. I’ve been lifting consistently now for 17 months. I’ve been doing deadlifts now for about a year consistently twice a week. I know you typically lose some strength when cutting weight, but in my case I’m gaining strength. Maybe due to my strict diet im on for the show. [/quote]
not a bad weight, not a good weight, but now you know how to lift more and sure you will, good luck
I got into powerlifting about a year ago and love it. iv read that deadlifting is the slowest increasing weight exercise. not sure if that is true or not. Im sure once you get to a certain weight it starts to get hard to add more weight to your pull unless you start adding body mass. I mean you can only lift so much at a certain body weight.
405 is ok for your weight , not great for a competitive lifter . 3x bw is pretty darn good and better as you get heavier until the 220 class. After that I’d say 700 is a very good lift.
[quote]Tim Henriques wrote:
You might find this useful, a 405 deadlift at your weight is a class III lift.
http://rawpowerlifting.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Lifter-Classifications.pdf[/quote]
This is a good chart to go by. I’d say above Master is pretty good. 405 is good progress for anyone who’s lifted for 1-2 years, it’s where you should be expected to be at as a man who even takes lifting half seriously.
wouldn’t I be class 2? im 175lbs
[quote]cct wrote:
[quote]Tim Henriques wrote:
You might find this useful, a 405 deadlift at your weight is a class III lift.
http://rawpowerlifting.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Lifter-Classifications.pdf[/quote]
This is a good chart to go by. I’d say above Master is pretty good. 405 is good progress for anyone who’s lifted for 1-2 years, it’s where you should be expected to be at as a man who even takes lifting half seriously.[/quote]
[quote]ksrcrider wrote:
wouldn’t I be class 2? im 175lbs
[quote]cct wrote:
[quote]Tim Henriques wrote:
You might find this useful, a 405 deadlift at your weight is a class III lift.
http://rawpowerlifting.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Lifter-Classifications.pdf[/quote]
This is a good chart to go by. I’d say above Master is pretty good. 405 is good progress for anyone who’s lifted for 1-2 years, it’s where you should be expected to be at as a man who even takes lifting half seriously.[/quote]
[/quote]
You’re in the 181s (166-181). To make Class II, you need a 430lb DL. You’re getting there, but not quite yet.
2 x BW = Shit
2.5 x BW = Suck
3 x BW = Good
3.5+ x BW = Great
[quote]lunchead wrote:
2 x BW = Shit
2.5 x BW = Suck
3 x BW = Good
3.5+ x BW = Great[/quote]
Lol that generalization is a bit too sweeping. I’ve deadlifted 3.75x my bw because I’m a lightweight. If I did that at 250lbs it would put me in the ridiculous category. Relative strength decreases as bw goes up in all strength sports.