What You've Learned From Experience

How come nobody accepts my criticism but I am supposed to lay down and accept everyone else’s?

What is that, exactly?

Do you really think you’re right just because you are many and I am one?

That doesn’t prove shit. I put up a ton of quotes a few pages back to demonstrate that you can find all kinds of statements to support any number of opinions.

Listen, you think you’ve got something on me, but you have nothing. I look upon you all individually and what I see is a bunch of individual losers, or individual fools, at best. Stupidity amplified by a crowd is still stupidity. Zero is still zero. You haven’t got anything on me so keep trying until you come up with something.

The day that someone posts a cogent criticism of me is the day that I’ll “accept it”. That will probably be the same day that you accept my arguments…In other words, not gonna happen anytime soon.

In all fairness and respect to the few intelligent posters on this board, there ARE people who have disagreed with me and done so in an intellectual fashion. They’re just few and far between.

[quote]Bicep_craze wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
i started out at about 170 but that was after i quit smoking, gained like 5-10 pounds right off the bat just from eating more than once a day.

then i started doing pushups and shit and got this hand me down weight set from my friend which lasted me about 6 months, more or less

i was probaly 180 or so when i started training at a real gym.

now im ~210

i really wish i started lifting when i was like 15 or something i probaly would have had the confidence and self esteem to have graduated high school. but im moving forward now so no sense in looking back.

  1. well said about the powerlifting principles

  2. Why no coffe pre workout? Works for me anyway. If it doesn’t for ya, I respect that.

  3. How old are ya? Ehh…I think you should consider enrolling into a part time diploma of something. Polytechnic maybe. It will take some time…but judging from your posts you do have a LOT of confidence mate. I think you can do it. Just saying eh.[/quote]

i have this semester im enrolled in and one more after that left at a community college. i dont think im going to go to a University though.

theres just A LOT more people who’ve gotten big from doing heavy lifts for reps than people whove just sat on machines.

its like saying you have the perfect cure for a headache and no one should ever use tylenol because your method is better, even though your method may be drinking flat gingerale and counting backwards from 20. you may have a few people who’ve used your method and gotten some kind of result but not many. whereas the amount of people taking tylenol have all had the same desired results. so it would be safe to assume that given tylenol’s record with curing headaches in comparison with drinking flat gingerale and counting backwards from 20 that tylenol is the better method.

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
MEYMZ wrote:
m I striving to look like Brad Pitt? Nope, try Dennis Wolf. But everyone works with what he’s got. Yep, and definitely you haven’t shown to have… wait you just said u wanna look like Dennis Wolf?! GOOD LUCK.

Ahhhh, welcome to the internet. A fresh blast of stupidity right to your face.

Listen, you are a dumbass if you think someone with nearly 50 inch shoulders at <175 lbs., and a 1.63 shoulder:waist ratio is not worthy of any props - he’s nothing special - just an average gym-goer. Most bodybuilders with those types of proportions are midgets. I am not a midget.

A bunch of other stuff…[/quote]

First of all the “arguments” game up from your viewpoints, not your physique. Secondly, most of us aren’t saying your physique sucks. Its just not that impressive. But looking at your transformation pics it is a good job and for a 22 year old you have built a good body that can be built on in future years. You do seem to believe it’s better than it is though.

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:

EVOO mixes with NOTHING

never take fish oil before you lift

never drink coffee before you lift

determination is the most important thing in regards to lifting.
[/quote]

why not coffee before lifting?

By the way you should try “Olive oil light in taste”. I find it to make almost every savory food better and you can’t taste it in shakes

[quote]Jereth127 wrote:
Magarhe wrote:
If a magic pill could make you the biggest and strongest overnight, you would miss the entire point of the journey, which is effort and many many victories. If you are young you probably do not get this, yet.
This should be put in the ‘Strong Words’ section of T-Nation
[/quote]

Thanks man, at least someone read my post … it is a journey of many small victories that’s waht keeps me coming back

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
How come nobody accepts my criticism but I am supposed to lay down and accept everyone else’s?

What is that, exactly?

Do you really think you’re right just because you are many and I am one?

That doesn’t prove shit. I put up a ton of quotes a few pages back to demonstrate that you can find all kinds of statements to support any number of opinions.

Listen, you think you’ve got something on me, but you have nothing. I look upon you all individually and what I see is a bunch of individual losers, or individual fools, at best. Stupidity amplified by a crowd is still stupidity. Zero is still zero. You haven’t got anything on me so keep trying until you come up with something.

The day that someone posts a cogent criticism of me is the day that I’ll “accept it”. That will probably be the same day that you accept my arguments…In other words, not gonna happen anytime soon.

In all fairness and respect to the few intelligent posters on this board, there ARE people who have disagreed with me and done so in an intellectual fashion. They’re just few and far between.[/quote]

I know what I have to do cause I learn from people that are already there. With all due respect you just have different views and I’m not going to get down to your level and start calling people losers or fools for having different opinions. I simply stated I disagreed with some of the things you were saying that’s all. Leave it at that. Attain your goals your way and I’ll do it my way.

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
How come nobody accepts my criticism but I am supposed to lay down and accept everyone else’s?

What is that, exactly?

Do you really think you’re right just because you are many and I am one?

That doesn’t prove shit. I put up a ton of quotes a few pages back to demonstrate that you can find all kinds of statements to support any number of opinions.

Listen, you think you’ve got something on me, but you have nothing. I look upon you all individually and what I see is a bunch of individual losers, or individual fools, at best. Stupidity amplified by a crowd is still stupidity. Zero is still zero. You haven’t got anything on me so keep trying until you come up with something.

The day that someone posts a cogent criticism of me is the day that I’ll “accept it”. That will probably be the same day that you accept my arguments…In other words, not gonna happen anytime soon.

In all fairness and respect to the few intelligent posters on this board, there ARE people who have disagreed with me and done so in an intellectual fashion. They’re just few and far between.[/quote]

The reason few people accept your critisicm is that you are espousing a radically differrent training style to what 99.999% of people who ever got massive did, and then have not exactly impressive results to show for it. If your revolutionary training style had got you to 21 inch arms say, then I think we’d all be listening a little more intently. learn from those who went up the mountain before you.

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:
MEYMZ wrote:
m I striving to look like Brad Pitt? Nope, try Dennis Wolf. But everyone works with what he’s got. Yep, and definitely you haven’t shown to have… wait you just said u wanna look like Dennis Wolf?! GOOD LUCK.

Ahhhh, welcome to the internet. A fresh blast of stupidity right to your face.

Listen, you are a dumbass if you think someone with nearly 50 inch shoulders at <175 lbs., and a 1.63 shoulder:waist ratio is not worthy of any props - he’s nothing special - just an average gym-goer. Most bodybuilders with those types of proportions are midgets. I am not a midget.

A bunch of other stuff…

First of all the “arguments” game up from your viewpoints, not your physique. Secondly, most of us aren’t saying your physique sucks. Its just not that impressive. But looking at your transformation pics it is a good job and for a 22 year old you have built a good body that can be built on in future years. You do seem to believe it’s better than it is though.

LiveFromThe781 wrote:

EVOO mixes with NOTHING

never take fish oil before you lift

never drink coffee before you lift

determination is the most important thing in regards to lifting.

why not coffee before lifting?

By the way you should try “Olive oil light in taste”. I find it to make almost every savory food better and you can’t taste it in shakes[/quote]

i dont drink coffee before i lift because it doesnt sit well in my stomach and i come close to vomitting.

EVOO also just sits bad in my stomach and makes me feel sick. then gives me wretched gas. the part i dont mind so much.

[quote]sebbie wrote:
The reason few people accept your critisicm is that you are espousing a radically differrent training style to what 99.999% of people who ever got massive did, and then have not exactly impressive results to show for it. If your revolutionary training style had got you to 21 inch arms say, then I think we’d all be listening a little more intently. learn from those who went up the mountain before you.[/quote]

Excuse me sir, did you NOT read the page of quotations that I posted earlier?

You are forcing me to repeat myself nearly verbatim. You have it precisely backwards.

Almost everyone who is actually big and knows what they’re doing agrees with me.

The biggest irony of all is that I’m not even the true “rebel” here.

I am endorsing mainstream concepts to a crowd which has decided to reject mainstream thinking in favor of clever marketing schtick. You are like liberals and/or little children. You think you are so smart, you think you’ve found something that nobody has else thought of, but in reality, other people have thought of your ideas and rejected them - because they sucked. You need to be brought to your senses with a good spanking. There is no other way.

For instance, you really think you’re sharing some profound insight when you claim, “Heavy compounds are the best way to get big”. LOL! Because nobody in the history of bodybuilding has ever tried that one before, right?

From 2003-2005 this site was all about picking a fight with the conventional wisdom of bodybuilding and hypertrophy. Every time-tested belief got attacked.

We were told the smith machine was nothing but a coat rack. We were told the pump didn’t matter, that training to failure was training to fail, soreness was irrelevant, bar speed was vital, and all you had to do to get big was lift heavy on basic compound exercises. Isolations and machines were generally worthless. The best way to get bigger arms was to squat. Can’t forget that line of bull.

Some of us bought the bullshit. Myself included. At least for a while. If it wasn’t for T-Nation’s articles circa 2004-2005, I wouldn’t know anything about the sport of powerlifting and I’d have no experience with strength training. But I do have that experience now. I have it because I tried that type of training and determined that it sucked horribly. In fact, I came to the conclusion that everything we were being told was a load of marketing crap and the mainstream concepts we were supposed to be “rebelling” against were, in fact, correct.

Thus, I have been full circle in my training. From a newbie, to a true believer of Chad Waterbury and ilk, to an informed realist and skeptic of “bullshit training”, otherwise known as the “School of Heavy Weights Will Make You Big”.

I didn’t invent the pump. I didn’t invent isolation. I didn’t invent most of what I’m endorsing here. I just happened to put it all together and present it to a crowd who wasn’t interested in hearing it because it conflicted with their long-standing belief system. It was a blasphemy against their adopted religion.

You could have picked up an issue of Flex magazine in 1993 and learned the same things that I’m telling you now.

I’m here to tell you that what you read in M&F is mostly correct. I’m here to tell you that you should actually use the so-called “Weider Principles” which have been around for decades. I’m here to tell you that the hundreds of workout routines printed in Flex since the start of that magazine have actually built some of the largest physiques around. Contary to what Chad Waterbury or some other internet guru tells you, they are not “garbage”. That is how the pro’s really train and if you want to look anything like they do, your routine had better be similar.

See? I’m the one who is mainstream and conservative. You’re the obnoxious, rebellious children. The stupid punks, the little shits who don’t know when to shut up.

You still haven’t realized that your views are reactionary and they are only around because some marketer said, “Hey, why don’t we convince the gullible meatheads of the world that everything they know about bodybuilding is incorrect?”

And out went decades of accumulated gym wisdom. Sad.

One of the quotes I put up earlier is extremely appropriate:

“Everybody wanna be a bodybuilder, but don’t nobody want to lift moderate weight for high reps.” - Diamond Delts, mod on BB.com Forums

I love this quote because of how true it is. It takes far more intelligence to realize that “lifting heavy shit” is NOT the best way to get big than the reverse. It’s hilarious that every clueless 16 year old who just started training thinks he needs to lift as heavy as possible in order to get big, and you old farts are on here endorsing the same concept as if it were some long-lost philosophy, known only to a few.

P.S. I have a 110 lb. female client who knows nothing about weight training and she was also under the impression that “Lifting heavy makes you big”. Wonder of all wonders. I had to set her straight. Maybe I should have told her to become a “bro” over at T-Nation.

[quote]Carlitosway wrote:
With all due respect you just have different views and I’m not going to get down to your level and start calling people losers or fools for having different opinions.[/quote]

I call people losers and fools when they flame me instead of addressing my arguments in an intellectual fashion. The latter happens all the time.

I bet you don’t know what it’s like to get attacked on a personal and intellectual level by nearly a dozen people at once. That happens to me nearly every time I make a thread.

I think I’m very polite and reserved with my criticism towards others, given the lack of respect I’m shown on this forum.

Do you know how obnoxious it is to claim that you’re right just because your view happens to be the view of the majority? That is the worst argument of a tyrant. I find it disgusting, as would any free-thinking individual. It is highly appropriate to respond to such claims by labeling their originators as losers or cretins.

That man wanted me to shut up and swallow the crap being spewed by the masses. That’s a strong dose of socialist thinking, which I reject.

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
First of all the “arguments” game up from your viewpoints, not your physique. Secondly, most of us aren’t saying your physique sucks. Its just not that impressive. But looking at your transformation pics it is a good job and for a 22 year old you have built a good body that can be built on in future years. You do seem to believe it’s better than it is though. [/quote]

Trust me, plenty of people here have claimed that my physique sucks. You are being more generous than most and for that I thank you.

I’ve seen myself pumped, and you haven’t. That’s probably why you get the impression that I believe my physique is better than it is. Bodybuilders always think of their physique in terms of how it looks fully pumped. It’s just a habit that you acquire from this type of training.

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
I look upon you all individually and what I see is a bunch of individual losers, or individual fools, at best. Stupidity amplified by a crowd is still stupidity.[/quote]
Oh yes, you certianly are a model of restraint and manners.

Somehow, I think I’d rather listen to Big Ron than a mod at BB.com
Everybody wanna be a bodybuilder, but ain’t nobody wanna lift no HEAVY ASS weights.-Ronnie Coleman.

Good Lord, you have clients…?

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
I bet you don’t know what it’s like to get attacked on a personal and intellectual level by nearly a dozen people at once. That happens to me nearly every time I make a thread.[/quote]
There’s probably a good reason for that, use your superior intellect and see if you can see why

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
If you probe them far enough you will learn that none of them managed to gain size until they were at least 30. They attribute it to poor training methods when they were “young and dumb”, but the real reason is entirely physiological.[/quote]
And you claim that you more about that than the guys who actually realised that when they trained heavy they gained weight…?
I suppose they all just started training heavy at the same time as they happened to physiologically gifted to do so.

You are lean NP, no question about that, and kudos to you for getting that way, you certainly have made progress form where you started. But you seem to think that gaining fat from eating a lot while bulking is the end of the world.
To each his own and everything, but at 11 or 12% BF(my own BF), I would happily but on a bit of fat in order to gain a good amount of muscle. And that’s my goal, to get a hell of a lot bigger, and I accept that while in an ideal world I wouldn’t put on any fat from doing it, but alas, it’s not an ideal world. But there’s nothing stopping me from shedding that fat when I get to a muscular size I am happy with.
So just 'cos you see a big guy carrying some fat, think twice before dumping on him for being fat, you have no idea what his goals are and whether or not he cares what the 170lb guy(guessing form your pics) or anybody else thinks of his frame

[quote]Jereth127 wrote:
Everybody wanna be a bodybuilder, but ain’t nobody wanna lift no HEAVY ASS weights.-Ronnie Coleman.[/quote]

“Big Ron” isn’t an intellectual giant, to put it mildly, and strictly speaking, he is wrong. There are PLENTY of people willing to lift “heavy shit”. This is how every fat high school kid from Texas trains. Wake up.

The genius of the quote is IN the fact that it’s a play on what Coleman said. And it happens also to have been made by a large black man. You can’t beat that for irony.

Also, Big Ron, for all his heavy training, still does DB Tricep Kickbacks. Should we start recommending those now?

[quote]Jereth127 wrote:
There’s probably a good reason for that, use your superior intellect and see if you can see why[/quote]

Of course. No one likes to see their pet theories smashed to bits! That’s why it happens.

[quote]Jereth127 wrote:
And you claim that you more about that than the guys who actually realised that when they trained heavy they gained weight…?[/quote]

But they didn’t. Listen, for every guy who “never trained heavy until he was 30”, I’ll show you some kid who trains heavy all the time and is still small. That kid could have been me several years ago. That kid is Diesel Wiesel and others.

[quote]Jereth127 wrote:
But you seem to think that gaining fat from eating a lot while bulking is the end of the world.

To each his own and everything, but at 11 or 12% BF(my own BF), I would happily but on a bit of fat in order to gain a good amount of muscle. And that’s my goal, to get a hell of a lot bigger, and I accept that while in an ideal world I wouldn’t put on any fat from doing it, but alas, it’s not an ideal world. But there’s nothing stopping me from shedding that fat when I get to a muscular size I am happy with.[/quote]

No, I have nothing against the “bulky” look, I just don’t think that everyone is capable of looking that way simply by bulking. I have basically been bulking for 3 years and I’m still skinny. That’s due to my build and metabolism. My diet is eggs, butter, cheese, red meat, tuna, whole milk, bacon, the most anabolic foods you can think of. But wouldn’t you know it…I’m still skinny.

I think some guys pull off being lean better than others and the same thing is true with the bulked up appearance.

If I were to get bulky, I’d simply be skinny fat. I’d kill what definition I have and still wouldn’t put on a significant amount of size. I know because I’ve tried it. That is not to say that I’m “afraid” of bulking. I’m basically on a perpetual clean bulk.

I simply know my body. When my body is willing to add more size, then it will go there. At the moment I am the largest I can be while still looking good.

However, if average-looking gymrats are going to criticize me for being “too small” then you better believe I am going to hit them right back for being “too fat”. It’s just part of the game. Nobody gets a free shot. You expect me to lay down and take that shit?

Nominal, don’t you think you should incorporate heavy lifting in your workout along with higher rep isolation moves?

You quote CT etc. on what they say the benefits for lighter weights/higher reps are. Yet you don’t mention that they also advocate lifting heavy in addition.

It makes you stronger, allowing you to use more weight in your isolation movements (resulting in more hypertrophy), as well as giving a hard dense look.

It seems to me that excluding anything can only be viewed as foolish.

Nominal Prospect has a scrawney, weak looking physique, and it can barely even be said that he bodybuilds - it’s more like he goes into the gym and masturbates his muscles, then goes home and proceeds to eat like a girl apparently.

The take home point here is, WHY is anyone even responding to him? Let him go suck at life elsewhere.

[quote]mr popular wrote:
Nominal Prospect has a scrawney, weak looking physique, [/quote]

No he doesn’t. People’s expectations of a physique these days are very skewed by looking at people with amazing genetics and steroid users.

For a 22 year old guy going to the gym and training properly, his physique is ok.

I am in no way saying this is something people should aim for as a goal. But discouraging someone at that age/level of development is just wrong, you are only doing so just to put him down.

If he was on AAS he would be 10-15lbs heavier, easily. I doubt people would be shitting on him as much as they are. Again, he’s only 22 and has plenty of years to gain size.

If this rate of developement is kept up, in 5-8 years I’d imagine he’d look quite impressive.

Putting his physique down just because he comes off as a jerk to you is not right. You’ll just only discourage people with a similar size.

And where is your picture?

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
“Big Ron” isn’t an intellectual giant, to put it mildly, and strictly speaking, he is wrong. There are PLENTY of people willing to lift “heavy shit”. This is how every fat high school kid from Texas trains. Wake up.[/quote]
Nominal, I can’t even begin to tell you how much of a jerk you come off as while saying stuff like this.
While you might dismiss possibly Bodybuilding’s greatest competitor for not being an ‘‘intellectual giant’’, you might want to not that BB.com isn’t noted for it’s abundance ‘‘intellectual giants’’ either

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
The genius of the quote is IN the fact that it’s a play on what Coleman said. And it happens also to have been made by a large black man. You can’t beat that for irony.[/quote]
I know where it comes from, it’s probably the most said thing in BB’ing. It’s not a particularly genius play on the original either.

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Of course. No one likes to see their pet theories smashed to bits! That’s why it happens.[/quote]
Wrong, try again

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
But they didn’t. Listen, for every guy who “never trained heavy until he was 30”, I’ll show you some kid who trains heavy all the time and is still small. That kid could have been me several years ago. That kid is Diesel Wiesel and others.[/quote]
I dunno where you’re form, but 99% of people I know who train with weights don’t actually know anything about training with weights.
This, coupled with ‘‘mirror muscle’’ syndrome, and an obsession with abs is far more likely to be the culprit of people, either 13 year olds or 30 year olds, and everyone in between failing to put on any bit of mass.
My local Rugby club ran an academy last summer for guys making the transition form the juvenile teams, The first thing on the agenda was putting them into the gym to get bigger, with some dietry guidelines. As I looked through the weight programmes made out for them, I wasn’t exactly amazed to see the amount of heavy lifting/low reps(albiet, high volume) workouts. And you can take my word that each of these guys did put on quite a bit of mass.

I know how frustrating it is to be skinny with a fast metabolism, but I’ve heard it used as an excuse by too many guys to actually consider it a valid point(because it simply isn’t)

The fact that you know you’re body is good, but that really is a load of crap. I saw an almost anorexic little 17 year old build almost 70lbs of muscle onto his frame in a year and a halfs hard work. And he didn’t have good genes for it, his whole family was very skinny, he was just dedicated. And guess what, he looked a hell of a lot better with a shit load of muscle and some fat than he did with his ‘leet abz’.

No I wouldn’t expect you too, but I would expect you to have a bit more common sense.
The enitre purpose of this site is muscle building-‘‘Muscle Building Elitests’’ and ‘‘The Intelligent and relentless pursuit of muscle’’ are slogans that flash on my screen every day.
Therefore, it probably wouldn’t be a great idea to go onto an internet site such as this and tell people that your skinny physique is good.
You asked for it really.

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:

“Everybody wanna be a bodybuilder, but don’t nobody want to lift moderate weight for high reps.” - Diamond Delts, mod on BB.com Forums

I love this quote because of how true it is. It takes far more intelligence to realize that “lifting heavy shit” is NOT the best way to get big than the reverse. It’s hilarious that every clueless 16 year old who just started training thinks he needs to lift as heavy as possible in order to get big, and you old farts are on here endorsing the same concept as if it were some long-lost philosophy, known only to a few.
[/quote]

“Everybody wanna be a bodybuilder, but don’t nobody wanna lift this heavy ass weight” -RONNIE COLEMAN, way bigger than your buddy Diamond Delts, the mod on BB.com Forums

You act like the guys way bigger than you on here are wrong. They’re the ones doing what the pro’s are doing. Go look at Johnnie Jacksons routine, Ronnie colemans, or even just most other body builders and they’re not doing crazy stuff and neither are the big guys here. No one here is even saying isolation exercises or machines are bad. No one is saying training to failure is necessarily always bad.

Also I’m wondering why you haven’t posted your stats or routine? If nothing else could you at least PM your current routine to me? I’m interested in the set up.

[quote]Jereth127 wrote:
Nominal, I can’t even begin to tell you how much of a jerk you come off as while saying stuff like this.
While you might dismiss possibly Bodybuilding’s greatest competitor for not being an ‘‘intellectual giant’’, you might want to not that BB.com isn’t noted for it’s abundance ‘‘intellectual giants’’ either[/quote]

Why am I a jerk for saying that? I believe that Ronnie Coleman has a good understanding of bodybuilding principles, but he chooses to express himself in a non-intellectual manner. Comments such as “Light weight, baby!” generally appeal to people with low IQ’s. Sorry, but it’s the truth. People aren’t created equal. Not in the realm of muscle hypertrophy, or brain hypertrophy, for that matter.

BB.com has plenty of people who are big, accomplished, and intelligent. It is by no means a “dumb website”, contrary to the claims you have read. There is a “bandwagon” mentality over there, but it’s no worse than the one here.

Whenever you have a forum with over 13,000 registered users and no moderation required to post, you’re going to get your fair share of stupidity. That is no trouble at all though, because the morons congregate on certain parts of the site and avoid others.

BB.com has actual, competitive athletes who post there as well as the most attractive fitness girls on the net. It also has lots of young people who are just getting into the hobby. Nothing wrong with that.

If you want serious discussion, all you have to do is stick to the serious parts of the site.

[quote]Jereth127 wrote:
It’s not a particularly genius play on the original either.[/quote]

If you say so. I think it’s about as witty as one can get in a discussion about lifting weights. But naturally, you’d have to agree with the point of view it endorses in order to share that opinion.

[quote]Jereth127 wrote:
I dunno where you’re form, but 99% of people I know who train with weights don’t actually know anything about training with weights.
This, coupled with ‘‘mirror muscle’’ syndrome, and an obsession with abs is far more likely to be the culprit of people, either 13 year olds or 30 year olds, and everyone in between failing to put on any bit of mass.
My local Rugby club ran an academy last summer for guys making the transition form the juvenile teams, The first thing on the agenda was putting them into the gym to get bigger, with some dietry guidelines. As I looked through the weight programmes made out for them, I wasn’t exactly amazed to see the amount of heavy lifting/low reps(albiet, high volume) workouts. And you can take my word that each of these guys did put on quite a bit of mass.[/quote]

Nothing you post here is going to refute the mountains of anecdotal evidence I have witnessed to attest to the fact that normal people think “lifting heavy is the best way to get big”.

If you want, we can get into a detailed discussion on how “normal people” train, and compare our subjective experiences. I agree that most people don’t know what they’re doing, but my definition of “improper training” is entirely different from yours.

What’s wrong with training mirror muscles only? That’s not a training error, per se, but rather a difference in aesthetic preferences. If someone only cares about biceps and chest, then there’s no good reason for that person to do squats. I really hope you don’t buy that bullshit about “squats making your arms grow”. It is entirely possible to make your body grow “out of proportion,” and numerous “dance club” physiques attest to this. You may not like it and I don’t either, but it doesn’t change the fact of the matter.

[quote]Jereth127 wrote:
I know how frustrating it is to be skinny with a fast metabolism, but I’ve heard it used as an excuse by too many guys to actually consider it a valid point(because it simply isn’t)[/quote]

I’m fully aware of the fact that people make all sorts of excuses. Skinny as well as fat. I work in this industry, after all, so I have heard most of them. In my case, it isn’t an excuse, it’s a reality. I deal with it, and you should too, instead of trying to be my savior.

[quote]Jereth127 wrote:
The fact that you know you’re body is good, but that really is a load of crap. I saw an almost anorexic little 17 year old build almost 70lbs of muscle onto his frame in a year and a halfs hard work. And he didn’t have good genes for it, his whole family was very skinny, he was just dedicated. And guess what, he looked a hell of a lot better with a shit load of muscle and some fat than he did with his ‘leet abz’.[/quote]

What I tell you about my body isn’t a load of crap. So what that you saw some skinny guy put on 70 lbs. of muscle? I know those stories. I’ve read them, I’ve seen the photo’s, and I’ve been very impressed as well. That doesn’t mean that everyone’s physiology is capable of making such a transformation. Granted, I’ve come a long way since I started and I have plenty to be proud of.

Please don’t use the “leet abs” bullshit with me. I don’t give a shit about my abs. Look again at my pics and you’ll see that I don’t even have a visible sixpack. That’s because I don’t train them.

I am not an aspiring Abercrombie model.

I have posted numerous times that I train for size and my ideal look is that of a symmetrical pro bodybuilder, like Dennis Wolf. I would kill to look like that.

You’re trotting out the old line that you read to every kid who comes on here. You get the impression that everyone who looks the way I do is skinny by choice, but nothing could be further from the truth. I told you I eat a lot. I told you I’ve been bulking for the past 3 years. I told you I consume lots of anabolic foods and provided a small list of them. Do you want me to post my entire diet? What else do you want? A blood and urine sample?

What I want is for you to get the fuck off my back and stop assuming you know all about me and you have “just the fix” for my inherent “problems”.

You don’t know shit about me and your attempts to “fix me” are obnoxious. It should be obvious from my posts that I a very firm grasp of bodybuilding principles and you are not telling me anything I haven’t heard countless times before when you quote the same old, tired cliches.

[quote]Jereth127 wrote:
The enitre purpose of this site is muscle building-‘‘Muscle Building Elitests’’ and ‘‘The Intelligent and relentless pursuit of muscle’’ are slogans that flash on my screen every day.
Therefore, it probably wouldn’t be a great idea to go onto an internet site such as this and tell people that your skinny physique is good.
You asked for it really.[/quote]

Once again, you are just making noise and not contributing any useful information.

If you saw my posts earlier in this thread and if you were familiar with my post history, you would know that I have traditionally resisted putting my pics up on this board, precisely because I was aware of the inevitable flaming that I would receive.

Don’t give me this “you asked for it” bullshit. No SHIT I asked for it, dumbass. This is T-Nation, home of the “construction worker with big forearms” look. For a decade this site has been completely biased towards SIZE and STRENGTH and I’d have to be a huge imbecile not to be keenly aware of that.

It’s hilarious. I can’t win.

I won’t put up my pics? Then I’m a pussy and no one should listen to me.

I put up my pics? Now I’m “small” and no one should listen to me.

I defend myself against criticism? Now it’s “my fault” and I shouldn’t have put them up in the first place.

Catch-22.

You are being a jackass.
If you just read what I wrote earlier in the thread, you would see that you are not contributing anything new to this discussion.

The same shit happens to me every time there is a long thread.

People hop into the debate after it’s been going on for days and they start raising bullshit that was already been dealt with 6 pages ago, because they’re too lazy to read the thread frm the beginning.

And my response is always the same: Cut the crap now or I’m going to have to go back through my post history and start quoting myself, word-for-word.

I really have to treat most of you like children.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Tumbles wrote:
It was kind of an “I’m a retard” moment, but one of the most important things for me was realizing I should not be focusing on moving the most weight, but moving the most weight in a manner that stimulates the target muscle (or, allows for maximal poundage, etc [insert non-bb goals here]).

Far from being a retard moment, that’s a moment most never have and goes along with my first post in this thread. The fact that iron is moving does not necessarily mean the muscles you’re trying hit are getting optimal work. Hence you see guys with large front delts and under developed pecs for instance.[/quote]

Most people never accomplish anything worthwhile either though. I guess I felt it was ridiculously simple and I should have figured it out within the first month of training.