T Nation

What would you recommend (experts only)

Stats: 6’3 265lbs @20% BF (44 inch waist)
Goal: 6’3 215lbs @8%BF (35 inch waist)
Time: 3 months

Supplement and Macronutirent recommendations

If you were (are) a personal trainer and had a client with the above stats (atheltic, used to lifting heavy, knowlegeable in training, etc) What type of program (nutrition/training) would you design for him? With the plethora of supplements out there to chose from, which ones (legal) would you use, what brand, dosages, cycles etc? Mag10, myostat, MD6, Methoxy, T-2, 5HTP, ZMA, BCAA’s, Multis, tribex, etc. etc. etc.

This guy is old school, X-collegiate athlete, X-powerlifter, around 33 years old and big and nasty (great friend to have). This guy has gotten sloppy after getting married, has had trouble losing weight on Ketogenic diet, and is motivated to go balls out to get in the best shape of his life. This guy reads T-Mag and has read T-Mag for a long time but is getting ultra confused by all the supps out there and by all the diets. This guy does not want to enter Body For Life but would not mind bitch slpping BP. I want to see what you guys could design based upon the above profile. I will put this guy on the best recommendation and pray it works so I won’t be the one bitch slapped at the end of 3 months!!! - he is starting June 1, 2002… He will train with me. Thanks T-Maggers

With his BF% being at 20 - he may be a candidate for the Meltdown Program. And I’m sure the recommendations for supps would go towards Mag10 and/or T2.

Also with his 20% BF, he may be able to also do a Fat Fast (so, follow the supp guidelines outlined for the Fat Fast) - he'll have enough energy to burn while on Fat Fast for the Meltdown program. Once he gets to or below 12-13%, he can certainly discontinue the Fat Fast and/or Meltdown for another program. Maybe the 5x5 or EDT. But also he should be incorporating some type of aerobic/cardio into the routine.

That's about all I can really think of at the moment. I do have some more "stuff" I can add here - but I'm hungry and wanna eat my steak......

Are you sure he wants to go from 265 @ 20% bf down to 215 @ 8%?? That would mean that his lean body mass would go from 212 down to 197.5. It’s okay if that really is his goal, but most people would rather hang on to most of their lbm. Also, it makes a difference in regard to his supplementation and training. If he got down to 230 @ 8% his lbm would be 211.4 (basically unchanged). In any event ~35 lbs of fat loss in 3 months is doable, but he will have to be pretty dedicated to his diet. Oh yeah, one other questioin. What do you mean by “has had trouble losing weight on Ketogenic diet”? Does this mean that he has trouble following the diet or that it really doesn’t work for him? I’m not saying that doing a keto diet is the best choice, but it almost always works for those who execute it correctly.

Thanks Patricia! So, no other supps to preserve lean mass? Myostat, mag 10, ALA, etc.?? I want a steak too! thanks!

To be honest, I haven’t really read to much into Myostat. There is a thread in the forum devoted to that discussion. I would ask anyone there - since these are people currently using Myostatt - what their thoughts are. I am someone who believes in keeping my nutrition simple - including supplementation. But we are now using the following supplements: Creatine, Surge, Grow and the Bioplex Pure-WP protein powder (which we like very much). I’m a traditional gal - still prefer good old fashioned food. Maybe you should start your friend off to beginning a food journal/workout log?

But really, if you read the Fat Fast Experiment article it clearly lays out the supplements to use. Including MD-6 - which will help decrease hunger pains. However it does recommend Androsal (if I remember correctly) - which is discontinued (is that correct, guys?). T2-Pro is another good thermo. If you haven't yet, read about the three different stacks listed in the Biotest site. That'll give you a good idea of what supps would be used for what.

But I have to ask the same question as Energy: what problems do you mean our friend had while on a ketogenic diet? Maybe the Fat Fast would be TOO much of diet plan to embark on now. Have you read The Diet Manifesto? It lists the various diets on T-Mag and their purposes.

Energy - I believe he can stay a little heavier and still get his gut off. He is an x-powerlifer and is for the first time ever wanting a six pack. Yes, I had him on a Ketogenic diet (less than 2 carbs a day) He lost a ton of water but after four weeks in ketosis, he did not lose that much Body Fat. He is the one telling me he is aorund 20% BF - he is big but does not look obese - like an out of shape athlete. So, If I can help him lean out in three months and begin to see his abs, I am thinking the body weight thing will not be an issue. I had him reading t-mag and he read a lot - he likes Alsessi’s training articles. He tried MD6 (I am laughing here - this guy is funny) and about everything else… He is willing to be strict and stick to a strict supp program.

Based on the stats you gave, weight and waist, I estimate his current bf% at 26 and he is shooting for 13. A nobler goal would be 230 lb with a 32" waist, equivalent to approximately 6%.

Many have had good success with methoxy while dieting, it not only preserves LBM, but may help to shed some excess pounds.

Diet - Okay so the keto diet’s out. I could sit here and write you a chapter paraphrasing the John Berardi articles that have appeared in t-mag, but someone already did it. Go to “The Essential Berardi” article and follow the recommendations given in regard to macronutrient combos, food choices, and meal timing.
The one thing you will need to do on your own is figure out what his daily caloric intake is going to be. It would be best if you could get a current detailed food diary from him and get it analyzed. That way you know what your starting point is. Barring that, you need to estimate what his current intake is and subtract at least 500 calories a day to see a substantial drop in fat.
Training - I’ve been on a fat fast diet for the last 6 weeks and have actually gained some lbm by training with heavy weights (and using Mag10). I’ve been using 5 reps or less per set with great results. For details about these types of programs, look for some of the advice in the forum from Joel Marion on 5x5 training. If you’re going to go with heavy weights, you need to make sure he does his cardio religeously. See the John Berardi article “the winning formula part 2”. It tells you how to design a cardio program that includes both steady state, and interval training. If you think that cardio will be a problem, then maybe you should consider a fat to fire or meltdown type of workout. Actually since you have 3 months, you can give both types of workouts a shot.
Supplements- MD6, T2pro, and ZMA throughout the diet. Tribex and methoxy7 for two weeks alternated with Mag10 for two weeks. Last year I did the same diet with very similar training habits. One of the only differences was that last year I had Androsol, while this year I have Mag10. The difference: last year I lost lean mass, this year I’ve put some on. I can’t be absolutely sure it’s the Mag10 but it’s the likely suspect.
One last bit of advice, make sure that he doesn’t delay starting his cardio program because with lower calories it gets harder and harder to do these types of workouts as you progress into your diet. He’s better off getting some cardiovascular condidtioning right away.