T Nation

What Won't Ruin My Wind


My endurance is what you might call shitty. I'm going to need to get it up to par (I'd like to be able to run 3 miles and not be hurting that bad).

I'm pretty aware of what I need to do to get there and I know AAS aren't a tool for that particular goal. My question is what AAS would most likely not impede my progress while doing that. It's only going to be for like 2-3 months or so and I'm pretty sure I'm going to be on aas during that time.

What I had figured was maybe a cruising dose of test like 250 mg ent a week and maybe a few endurance supplements like powerFull, gycerol, and cm. I'm guessing eq might be good too but I think my calves will pump up to much.Basically what I'm thinking is as little juice as possible at that time then once the phase is over I can juice it up and with the lack of cardio + more food/rest/and chemistry it might be time for more growth. Any thoughts?


More cardio=sacrificeing growth to some extent.Sometimes you need it though.As long as Tren(fina) is not in the picture, I don't think 3 miles is out of reach.I run a mile at one time tops.Sometimes I will run fifths of a mile under time.I like running fifths overall cause long distance running takes away from my build.Just droppin ya some of what I like to do.

Good running,


This may not be the information you are looking for exactly as I've never used any AAS, I'm only considering my first cycle now.

However, I have worked very hard on improving my cardio and making it work with my lifting.

I went from a 300 pound slob who couldn't stand up to a 183 pound person who's been lifting for 3 years and I did my first triathalon a few weeks ago.

Training for the triathalon involved a great deal of running, biking, swimming. I developed symptoms of low testosterone levels during the triathalon training and took no time off from lifting.

My size gains were minimal during the triathalon training. My lifts did improve and my strength went up very slowly.

I think if you are using testosterone you will perform better and likely be able to better improve your running ability without adversely effecting your gains the way I did.

My friend who is an MD, a good bodybuilder, and a bicycle racer says that boosting test levels helps do the endurance and make good gains in the gym at the same time. Not as good as just lifting though.

However, just training for a 3 mile run isn't much - that should only help your lifting - that's not like real endurance training...if anything, it may actually help muscle gains because you'll not be out of breath as bad during a set of heavy squats or deadlifts.


Well thanks for the input so far guys. I am often sucking wind pretty hard in between squats sets. Just wondering if there would be any point in me swimming to build up my wind along with running. Or should I just stick to what I need to do for my "testing" and run.

I'm asking because swimming is supposed to be such great cardio. BTW, if I time things right I think I can kinda use the running phase as a sort of "catabolic deficit" kind of phase maybe even drop my cals a little bit and then like I said once I dont' have to do soo much cardio I'll be primed for more growth. But I'm getting way ahead of myself first things first.


All in moderation Wide.Swimming is great for cardio.Baby step it.Start out with the bare minimum and then up it if the results you want are not being achieved.Pimp on.



I value my knees too much to do long runs (at 275lbs I've got to be careful). What works for me is a comination of walking, light jogging and sprinting. I've worked out a route that is 10km (5km out, 5km back). I can now do this distance in an hour. I've found the results from this style of cardio fanatstic, much more so than from straight jogging alone.


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What's with the tren and running? I've been taking it at 100mg/day and went on a jog with my girlfriend today (~15min). We were going super slow as my legs got a decent pump just from running. I wasn't so much winded as it was just difficult to move in a running fashion.



Tren isn't that great for pretty much the reason you described. I've heard some people say it just kills their endurance all together, but either way it's pretty much out for me.

BTW Tone you're a big mofo! I like the idea and will likely use a combination to get me where I'm going but eventually I'm going to have to just face that I'll be running ALOT for a few months. It's work related :wink: :wink:


Fina constricts the bronchial tubes.AR can go in more and better detail than I.He gave me the low down as to why it kills the cardio.



Tren absolutely sucks my cardio endurance dry. I do a lot of boxing, and I really have to tone it down when on a tren cycle. Otherwise, I get nausea, high bp, and overall shitty feeling afterwards.


More like a Waston Fartlek style. 10 minutes warm up walk. Jog hard for 4 minutes (interspersed with sprints) with 1 minute walk recovery. Repeat it 8 times, then a 10 minute warm down walk. I'm not too anal when it comes to the number of sprints I do, but I always try to keep my time to the hour.

I've decided 275 is my limit. I don't want to get any bigger. As I'm 6'2" it doesn't look freakishly big (I hope). I'm going to work over the next few weeks to get my bf into single figures.



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Take it easy on those knees. Once the pain starts, its pretty much there too stay. I have went to sport doctors and others and they all tell me the same thing. For my weight 268, you can't put that much stress on the knees. I have had surgury twice and can never run again, and I miss it. My cardio is on an eliptical only.

FYI, not trying to be "Dad" here but something to think about.



I think 3 miles for a big guy is alot. Especially as a starting point. I could never run that. As a matter of fact I remember in high school, those Canada physical fitness tests... That 2.2 km run (1 mile) really drained me, and I was much younger. I remember sucking wind badly after that. Then I would kick everyone's ass in the sprint! This may sound weird but I would ask myself, what is the minimun I can do cardiowise, so that I don't suck wind between sets of squats? I've noticed just doing post training cardio (10-15min with a 12% incline) and walking more has helped me in that area. If you're not doing that maybe it would be a good place to start.

P.s. My hat goes off to you big mofo's 268 and 275... doing that type of cardio!


If I ever do cardio, I like to cross-train. Sure, there's that other site, but what I mean is to just cycle through several cardio machines in one session.

For instance, I'll start by rowing 1000m on the Concept II rower, switch to the bike and do hills for 10 min, and then switch to the treadmill and run for 10 min. Overall, I like it a lot better than just pounding on the treadmill for half an hour.

BTW, rowers are great cardio machines that are sadly underused.


damn... I'd like to be able to JOG a mile without my legs giving out. Fricken shin splints...


What I am finding is that running EQ at 4-600 mgs/wk is definitely improving my running. Since 8 weeks of being on it, I have gone from a 10 minute mile to a 9 minute one. I bet that this has a lot to do with EQ, because it helps build red blood cells, and increases the oxidative capactity (and size) of the mitochondria.

I split my workouts into 5, M-F and run 2 miles after each (so, 20-25 min altogether). I notice no muscle loss at all.


I hear you about the knees. I ruptured the ligaments and patially tore the meniscus in my right knee about four years ago. I was on crutches for 6 months, which was a humbling experience I can tell you.

I had stayed away from running for years, but after consultations with my doc (who is a sport specialist) I've returned to it. I thoroughly enjoy it, but I am wary. It was my doc who suggested Watson Fartlek interval training.

And JW I'm always happy to take advice from an old fart like myself;-D




Want to be a better runner. Here's what helped me - I've always been the worst runner in the world then my little brother who trains Rangers helped me learn to run better...I still suck at it, but I did finish my triathalon.

Run, don't jog. Actually running is easier on the knees.

When you run, until you get used to it, turn off the MP3 player and listen to your feet. Try to run silently, like you are sneaking up on something, avoid the slap, slap, slap of your feet - this makes it easier, reduces shin splints, and reduces abdominal cramps (side stitches).

Try running longer and longer intervals. Decide what your goal mileage is for the short term. Then start with 100/100 sprint/walk sessions for that mileage, increase to 150/100, then 200/100, 250/100. Then when you are ready gradually start decreasing the walking rest periods by 10 paces this time, 10 more time after next...soon enough you can run your goal mileage. Now add more and after your usual run start going the rest of the new distance in 100/100 patterns and so on until you eventaully reach your long term goal.

Breath in through the nose, out through the mouth. To improve lung capacity, stretch and expand those alveoli by occasionally having periods of forceful exhalation, you'll sound like a grouchy old bear while doing this and running at the same time, but it'll improve your wind. Sometimes you can also expand the alveoli while running by exhaling out forcefully through pursed lips.

This is all I can offer, if you want to take running advice from the worlds' worst runner and holder of the world record for slowest triathalon finish in the history of the event...I hope it helps. BTW, when I started out, I couldn't run 25 paces without being short of breath and having to stop.

Again, how this information will relate to your weight training with AAS support - I have no clue...yet. We'll find out starting in september when I start training for the 1/2 ironman next spring. Now I'm concentrating on weight training, muscle mass, strength, and training my little girl for her triathalon in september.

Good luck on your running. I hope this is at least slightly helpful to you.