T Nation

What Was Once Fact...

Well, we have where catabolism can be stopped immediatly post workout (Surge), a workout so filled with energy that my dead grandmother started sweating (Power Drive/mental power), then throughout the day our base metabolic rate can be raised, where our mitochondria are pumping out cellular energy not to mention the adrenal glands (md6/t2), all while following a diet where one can manipulate insulin to stay lean and strap more flesh on them bones (don’t diet/massive eating). So, let me get this straight…have we or have we not reached a point where one can both get huge and lose fat at the same time? Or is this magazine a magical dream or I am soon to be woken up under a blanket of twinkie wrappers?

I read this now and realize it is barely legible…I appologize profusely

Watts: Take it from The Lion…its real…BUT (damn those “buts”!!!) 1) You still are going to have to be tight on WHATEVER diet you choose, (or forget it) and 2) You STILL have to work your ass off in the gym…that’s it…

Watts: Your post was perfectly legible, so don’t worry about it. Regarding your question, although I believe that Biotest’s supplement line is outstanding, I don’t think it’s possible to combine several of them together for the purpose of avoiding a difficult-but-true biological fact – i.e., once you’re beyond newbie gains, your body is capable of achieving only one of three primary states at any given time: catabolic, anabolic, or static. One or more Biotest supplements can assist you in optimizing one of the former two states (you obviously don’t need to optimize a static state), but there’s no way you to use legal supplements (and it’s incredibly difficult to use pharmaceuticals) for the purpose of gaining a significant amount of muscle while also losing a significant amount of fat. It just doesn’t happen.

You forgot something pal. If you wanna loose weight, you have to eat less than what your body needs. That means he won’t have that much energy left to build muscle.
If you wanna build muscle, then you gotta eat more then want is needed. And if you eat more than, it is very unlikely that he will feel the need to burn fat since he already has enough fuel.

Bob: I’ve had to “segway” this question into individual post that appear to be relavent to the question; couldn’t get much of a response from a separate post. IN YOUR EXPERIENCE AND OPINION: if an acceptable fat LOSS is about 1-2 pounds/week during a cutting phase (this is well documented), what appears to be an acceptable fat GAIN while trying to gain mass? (Prof’s experience was about a 1 PERCENTAGE point BF gain per month). Why bother? Just like when losing, another guage to judge my progress and the overall effectiveness of one’s program…that’s all…

Ahhh yes but what if one can reach both a muscle repair/gain(anabolic) phase and a fat loss(catabolic) phase on an individual day, via massive eating/don’t diet and appropriate suppliments…I beleive this to be possible and I am assuming Mr. Berardi does as well, seeing as though his clients experience these results.

Mufasa: I realize this isn’t your main point, but first I’d like to say that I agree with you that 1-2 lbs./week of fat loss is acceptable in most cases; however, I think that for some people, trying to lose more than 1 lb./week may lead to an unacceptable loss of muscle mass. (Just my personal experience talking there, I don’t have any firm data to back it up.) That being said, I don’t tend to think of “acceptable” fat gain in terms of percentages; rather, I tend to think of it in terms of ratios. Specifically, when I’m trying to bulk up, I do it best by keeping the muscle:fat gain ratio at around 2.5:1 (in other words, 1 lb. of fat gained for every 2.5 lbs. of muscle gained). For me, this works very well, and, although I believe that were I to allow a greater amount of fat gain (e.g., 2:1 or even 1.5:1) I would also gain muscle a bit faster, I simply don’t like my body image if I go above 11% bodyfat (I stay between 7% and 11%). Further, I know from bitter experience that taking my bodyfat too high only means that the necessary fat loss will be far more difficult than if I’d kept my patience and limited my gains. For me, the incremental gain is not worth the cost. This may or may not have answered your question, but like all things related to weight training, the ultimate decision is yours to make. I can tell you one thing, the Prof can tell you another, and another person can tell you something else – and who knows, we may all be telling you the same thing in our own respective ways – but you are the only one who can decide what is right for your body. Sometimes it’s nothing more than going along with your gut feeling about something, and sometimes it requires a hell of a lot of effort to figure it all out. In the end, it’s a hard path to follow at times, but it has its fair share of rewards too.

Watts: Your scenario is definitely possible, although I don’t think it’s likely to happen in the same day. What I do believe to be possible, and what I do myself, is to attain a temporary state of anabolism while dieting. I do this by massively (no pun intended) overfeeding on protein during each the three days I work out in a diet phase. During the rest of the time, I’ll underfeed on calories so that my weekly average caloric intake works out to about 10-12 times bodyweight (I intentionally vary it from week to week). Cheat days also serve this same purpose, as long as one tries to limit the “cheat” part as much as possible.

Bob: What you outlined is EXACTLY what I was looking for! The general concensus appears to be (including the T-Mag staff), that some fat gain in inevitable. That being said, the concept of “bulking until you could almost hear the water and fat” sloshing when somebody walked THEN turning around and making themselves sick with dieting, water restriction, high rep training and diuretics seemed CRAZY! And in many cases, they would turn around and lose a contest BECAUSE THEY WERE SMALL AND STRINGY! Anyway, how in the world could you possibly really know how well you were doing under the flab? So, bottom line: 1 pound of fat gained for every 2.5 pounds of lean mass gain. Monitor. Adjust accordingly. Look in the mirror. Outstanding…