[quote]maverick88 wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]maverick88 wrote:
Well, right now I have a warehouse job
[/quote]
So supply chain…[/quote]
I have been looking into that one. [/quote]
Folks with supply chain knowledge are commodity in my line of work. You can certainly make a living this way.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]maverick88 wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]maverick88 wrote:
Well, right now I have a warehouse job
[/quote]
So supply chain…[/quote]
I have been looking into that one. [/quote]
Folks with supply chain knowledge are commodity in my line of work. You can certainly make a living this way. [/quote]
For sure, but the supply of these jobs is much higher than the demand.
[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]maverick88 wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]maverick88 wrote:
Well, right now I have a warehouse job
[/quote]
So supply chain…[/quote]
I have been looking into that one. [/quote]
Folks with supply chain knowledge are commodity in my line of work. You can certainly make a living this way. [/quote]
For sure, but the supply of these jobs is much higher than the demand. [/quote]
True. He does have his foot in the door though.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
Literally doesn’t matter. Just get your $150,000 piece of paper so you can get your foot in the door of job interviews. You’ll learn more about whatever job you get into in the first 6 months of actual work than you will in all four years of college.
There are some exceptions to this, but not really in the fields you mentioned.[/quote]
Terrible, terrible idea to spend that much.
And I think unless you go after one of the specific majors in which it does matter what you major in (ie, you’ll get a job in your field of study), in many cases it doesn’t even make sense to go to college. [/quote]
I completely agree. I have no idea how much college costs; I had a full scholarship. I just pulled a number out of the air.
But unfortunately college is very mandatory these days, because the employers of most decent fields won’t even speak to you without a degree. Nobody seems to bother to think about how unnecessary this usually is.
I can promise you that if I had just gone into my job straight after high school I’d be twice as proficient at it given my four additional years of experience (thereby make the company more money!). But instead I was pissing about in college for those four years getting the degree I for some reason was required to have, which mostly involved skipping Western Civ classes and watching girls take body shots off of each other. I graduated cum laude.
[quote]csulli wrote:
But instead I was pissing about in college for those four years getting the degree I for some reason was required to have, which mostly involved skipping Western Civ classes and watching girls take body shots off of each other. I graduated cum laude.[/quote]
Oh, how I miss those days…
Picking a major depends on your goals and your willingness to achieve them. Most engineering degrees are not a trivial pursuit. I would say, think about studying something that you both enjoy and is practical enough to land you a job. Physics and mathematics, for instance, while technical are in very low demand unless you get a PhD.
And dont bother going to a good school or doing a serious major if you plan on partying all the time. Save the money and learn a trade.
Thanks for the advice so far.
Curious, would planning on going to graduate school make any of the majors more desirable?
[quote]maverick88 wrote:
Thanks for the advice so far.
Curious, would planning on going to graduate school make any of the majors more desirable?[/quote]
Maybe. Depends on the field.
Getting relevant work experience while going to school (or interspersed, like over the summer) will usually be about the best thing you can do. Good work experience, good references.
Let me put it this way:
In general, you get hired based on how much value the company thinks you can bring to it. The better you are at proving you can bring value, the more likely they are to hire you.
If you want a cynical but useful/realistic perspective on it, put it purely in terms of money:
If they pay you 50,000 dollars, they expect you to add at least 70,000+ of value to their company every year just to cover their “costs”. (Remember, YOU are a cost). The better you can demonstrate a guaranteed return on investment, the more likely they are to hire you, and the more they’ll be willing to pay you.
Would they buy a $100,000 piece of equipment if they weren’t planning on getting $100k of value out of it? When it comes to the numbers, you’re fundamentally no different than that piece of equipment.
Something I don’t think enough people keep in mind.
[quote]maverick88 wrote:
Thanks for the advice so far.
Curious, would planning on going to graduate school make any of the majors more desirable?[/quote]
Graduate school without experience is nearly worthless. I have a MBA and started right after I finished by undergrad and learned some stuff.
The problem is that Graduate school is supposed to be application based and not so much theory based. When you don’t have a lot of experience, it’s hard to understand how the application of what you talk about really takes place. And you lose out on the great discussions that can be had with people who actually have experience. You instead can only talk about how things “should work” or “how I THINK I would handle this situation.”
But when I went back to finish it after 4-5 years of experience, what I got out of it was 1000x more valuable.
[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
[quote]maverick88 wrote:
Thanks for the advice so far.
Curious, would planning on going to graduate school make any of the majors more desirable?[/quote]
Graduate school without experience is nearly worthless. I have a MBA and started right after I finished by undergrad and learned some stuff.
The problem is that Graduate school is supposed to be application based and not so much theory based. When you don’t have a lot of experience, it’s hard to understand how the application of what you talk about really takes place. And you lose out on the great discussions that can be had with people who actually have experience. You instead can only talk about how things “should work” or “how I THINK I would handle this situation.”
But when I went back to finish it after 4-5 years of experience, what I got out of it was 1000x more valuable. [/quote]
Agree here, your thought process is just different when you have experiences that coincide with a topic.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]maverick88 wrote:
Thanks for the advice so far.
Curious, would planning on going to graduate school make any of the majors more desirable?[/quote]
Maybe. Depends on the field.
Getting relevant work experience while going to school (or interspersed, like over the summer) will usually be about the best thing you can do. Good work experience, good references.
Let me put it this way:
In general, you get hired based on how much value the company thinks you can bring to it. The better you are at proving you can bring value, the more likely they are to hire you.
If you want a cynical but useful/realistic perspective on it, put it purely in terms of money:
If they pay you 50,000 dollars, they expect you to add at least 70,000+ of value to their company every year just to cover their “costs”. (Remember, YOU are a cost). The better you can demonstrate a guaranteed return on investment, the more likely they are to hire you, and the more they’ll be willing to pay you.
Would they buy a $100,000 piece of equipment if they weren’t planning on getting $100k of value out of it? When it comes to the numbers, you’re fundamentally no different than that piece of equipment.
Something I don’t think enough people keep in mind.[/quote]
I actually work for a college and this is a very good statement. EXPERIENCE is much more important than your degree, and definitely don’t do grad school without work experience. Honestly my biggest mistake in life has been getting a business management degree. It basically proves that you can do…well, not much of anything.
Of your potential list go with Supply Chain if you’re setting on doing one of those. Honestly though if I were you (and if I were me 9 years ago)I would go to a community college and learn to weld or do fabrication, fairly high demand for welders and a lot of artistic people looking for a good money earner that they don’t want to shoot themselves for doing find welding and fabrication a good fit. Even basic welding takes a bit of an artistic touch to do at a high level. That’s my advice for what it’s worth.
I am going to apologize in advance because this is going to be a long post, even for me, but this is a very important subject and you should not make this decision lightly.
First, a common misconception about college needs to be addressed: The point of college and obtaining a college degree is not to prepare you for a job, no matter what anyone (even college administrators) tell you. The point of college is to teach you a subject of your choice and to allow you to demonstrate a sufficient grasp of said subject, for which they will award you with a degree which is just a formal way of saying you have sufficient knowledge in a field. Now, some degree programs within a college are designed specifically to prepare you for a career but more on that in a little bit. That being said, it is on you to choose your academic path to fit your goals and needs. If you fail to do that, then it is your fault that your goals are not met, not the college system. The college system in the developed world is very carefully designed, but you must know how to take advantage of it, which is what I am going to outline for you.
Now, a note on the tier system. When I refer to a schools “tier,” I am referring to their rankings. The general rule is each tier, 1-4 represents 50 schools. Tier one is the top 50, tier 2 is the second 50 and so on. For all intents and purposes there is no difference between any of the undergraduate programs in tiered schools, but do not go to an unranked school, they are not worth it. This means that there is virtually no difference between number one and number 100. The only difference at this level is the students. Top rated schools, through the strength of their reputation and admission standards and other factors, get the best students. The ones that have displayed drive, ability, and desire above those that make up the average student body of lesser ranked schools. This means that a much higher percentage of students at top ranked schools are able to achieve top scores. So, while say half of the student body at a tier 1 school can demonstrate the ability to study a field at the graduate level, maybe only 10-15% of tier 2 school students are capable of this, which is why you will see more graduate students from top rated schools. The major difference between top ranked schools and lower ranked ones does not really become all that important until one begins graduate level studies, and for trade degrees.
Now, there are three main types of undergraduate level degrees that are offered. The first type are strictly academic degrees, by which I mean their primary purpose is to prepare you for further academic study in that area. These are your hard sciences (physics, biology, chemistry, etc), math, computer science*, history, philosophy, literature, etc. These degrees are for people who have the desire, drive, and ability to study these topics at an advanced (read PhD) level and wish to become academics and/or researchers in those fields. If you do not plan on studying these topics past the undergraduate level, they are roughly the equivalent of BS degrees, which I will get to in a little bit. Anybody who does plan on going the academic route, you had better make sure that you love studying and solving problems in whatever field you choose because that is what you will do for your entire time in that field.
For these undergraduate degrees, the tier of your undergraduate program does not matter one bit because at this level all of the course material is the same everywhere. Yes, that means that there is virtually no difference between the introductory level calculus or calculus-based physics courses taught at the top ranked school in America and your local community college. The only difference is that far more of the students admitted to top ranked schools are capable of doing well in these courses than your average community college student. The important thing to do is to do as well as you possibly can and master the material you are taught, and get a good score on your graduate level entrance exams. The key thing to remember is that a student with a 4.0 GPA from a tier 4 school and a GRE score comparable to the average matriculating grad student in a given program will be chosen over a student with a 3.2-3.5 GPA from Harvard and comparable or lower GRE score. The major downside of these programs is that you can plan on spending about a decade as a student, and academia is very competitive. The major upside is that no matter what field you can choose it is very rewarding knowing that you have directly increased the knowledge humanity has in a given subject.
The second type of degree are trade degrees. These are the degrees that directly prepare you for a job in a specific field directly out of undergrad. Examples are: computer science*, engineering, nursing, accounting, actuarial mathematics, etc. These degrees tend to be very specialized (duh) and the classes tend to require more time and effort then the next type (the BS degrees). These degrees are for people who are going to college who have no real marketable job skills and do not have the desire or ability to continue in academia. These degrees both teach you the skills that you need to perform the jobs in those fields and the minimum degree required to get a job in them. If you do not yet have any solid, marketable job skills and are not going into an academic field, these degrees are your best bet. For these types of degrees, the ranking of your school is important since most people hiring for these jobs do not understand the lack of difference between the differently ranked schools like academics like myself do, so they put more emphasis than they should on the ranking of a school.
The third type of degree are known to us in academia as BS, or “bullshit” degrees. Do not let the name fool you, they can and are very useful and valuable to certain people. Every single degree program that you mentioned falls under this category. These degrees are for people who already have marketable trade skills but need a degree to advance in their career. Examples are IT professionals, electricians, retailers, and such trades that do not necessarily require a 4 year undergraduate degree to get into, but do require one to move up into, say mid level management positions. The content of these degrees typically do not matter, since you already have developed your skills in your given field and you just need the paper. They are designed to be easy to pass so people can attain them while working full time. The downside to these degrees are that if you do not have any specific trade skills, you will have to develop them. Without any trade skills, these degrees will not help you with finding a job. This will mean an additional couple of years or so at least worth of training, education and gaining experience before these degrees start to be worth anything.
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
a bunch of gold
[/quote]
Thank you for this.
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
a bunch of gold
[/quote]
Thank you for this.[/quote]
Agreed, that was excellent. Thanks Doc!
I’ve gone to trade school prior to university, so when I first started university it was different. I was never what I would consider an academic in high school.
In my first year, the biology lab tech helped me a lot, and I always had questions for him, and with my background I was wondering what the purpose of ______ degree was, like what jobs/doors can it open.
He gave a very good answer, it was something along the lines of “What do you want your degree to do for you?” or “It’s what you do with it that counts”.
He wasn’t implying that your degree does the work for you, but it’s how you put it to use, like Dr.Matt pointed out above.
I’m still figuring out what direction/field I want to go in, probably grad school at least, but still not certain for what, definitely something to do with microbiology though, but that’s still broad. It’s like there’s too many exciting things going on, and I don’t know which to pick.
I haven’t read any of this thread but I’ve got some recent experience that might be of use to someone deciding upon a major.
Yesterday I put an ad in Craigslist seeking a part time lab assistant offering 10 bucks an hour. I didn’t know until today that Washington state minimum wage is 9.32 an hour. Had I known that, I would have offered 11 or 12 bucks. Anyway, in less than 24 hours I had the following applicants; 3 biology degrees, 2 chemistry degrees, 1 nutrition degree, 1 psych degree, a geology degree and one other that was something like anthropology.
Based on this frightening (great for me) result, I’d say come up with a specific plan as early as you can and a specialized major to suit that plan. Biology and chemistry are way too general. If you’re going to be a a biology major you better be planning grad school with specific objectives otherwise you’re going to be one darn well educated part time ten dollar an hour employee.
[quote]on edge wrote:
I haven’t read any of this thread but I’ve got some recent experience that might be of use to someone deciding upon a major.
Yesterday I put an ad in Craigslist seeking a part time lab assistant offering 10 bucks an hour. I didn’t know until today that Washington state minimum wage is 9.32 an hour. Had I known that, I would have offered 11 or 12 bucks. Anyway, in less than 24 hours I had the following applicants; 3 biology degrees, 2 chemistry degrees, 1 nutrition degree, 1 psych degree, a geology degree and one other that was something like anthropology.
Based on this frightening (great for me) result, I’d say come up with a specific plan as early as you can and a specialized major to suit that plan. Biology and chemistry are way too general. If you’re going to be a a biology major you better be planning grad school with specific objectives otherwise you’re going to be one darn well educated part time ten dollar an hour employee.[/quote]
Very true. Even with a PhD, you don’t get a free pass. It’s kind of sad to see so many of my fellow uni students thinking they’ll do fine and get a great job with an English (or other BS major) degree. School’s an investment. If you want to get good returns on it, you’ve got to work hard and work smart.
Regarding the OP’s situation, what kind of a lifestyle do you want to be living? That’s probably going to be the main consideration in the field you pick. The reality is there’s a very good chance that you will get an education in something and find out that working in that field isn’t what you expected. If you find something you’re passionate about, great, go for it. Basically, what I’m trying to say is pick whatever you like the most out of whatever fields meet your practical considerations.
Dr. Matt nailed it as usual. Anyone considering college needs to read and understand what he’s saying.
I got a double in Philosophy and Poli-Sci, with a minor in Econ. These programs gave me a lot of free time to waterski in college, but also gave me a great base to go to law school and, more importantly, the piece of paper I needed to go to law school. Without law school, I assume I’d be driving a cab right now once my failed career as stuntman came to an end.