T Nation

What To Do With the D-Bol?

Alright guys, not to sound redundant as I have posted this before several months back, but after some heavy layoff time I am about to finally begin my cycle. So quickly:

stats: 5’8" 190lbs 12-14%bf, age 29
training well over 13 years

Goals: to reduce bodyfat and get ripped

Intended workout type: german body comp and similar low rest interval supersets along with 15 mintes of HIIT afterward

Goodies: 2 bottles 250mg cyp, 2 bottles 200mg Equipoise, 150 10mng d-bol tabs, 40ml 75mg tren, HCG, Clomid, and Nolva

Questions: I will obviously start the cycle with a frontload of 1000mg test and 8000mg eq and then taper the dosages the following weeks to 500mg test and 400mg eq. I want this to be about a ten week cycle so I will discontinue eq at week 5 and the test around week 8.

I want to know what you guys would do with the d-bol? Start off the cycle with it, come off it and then finish with it later, or just start it around week 4 and continue till the end? I’m thinking no more that 30mg/day as I am not looking for a bloated look.

As for the tren I can always get another 20ml if needed but what would you guys do with this? Start the cycle with it and go all the way through or introduce halfway and take advantage of the short-acting ester for my ensuing PCT to follow? I love tren from the last cycle I did and would love to introduce it early but am curious if I’ve set this up right and if maybe I have to many drugs floating around my system at once. I plan to start recovery with Clomid and Nolvadex as well as use HCG on the weekend protocol theory around day 21 on.

So anyway, anybody have any ideas on how to design this thing? I know I have the early stage right so that EQ doesn’t interfere with PCT and I have the test ending around the right time to come off nicely but what the hell should I do with the d-bol and tren?

By the way, I will be busting ass in the gym and using a hpyocaloric diet in an effort to shed bf. Last time I used tren for this it workied like a charm. Any last ideas on bf loss protocols? I also play basketball and flag football so I am definitly burnign some kcals.

Sorry for the long thread but hey, any input is appreciated.

I don’t agree with the ‘High Intensity’ work post workout. You will get better results and keep more muscle gains if you go low intensity and for a longer period of time - say 30 - 40 minutes.

As for the dbol, and tren, just put use the dbol at 15-20 mg per day and use the tren every other day through out the cycle.

Prock, since your objective is to get shredded, I would suggest lowering your test to ~250mg/wk. This way you can still perform in the sack, and you don’t hold as much water. Given the drugs you have mentioned, and w/ the the goal of losing bodyfat, here’s what I’D DO…No astronomical dosages, just keep it nice and simple.
250mg test weeks 1-9
400mg eq weeks 1-7 (Fl 2x the first 2wk)
10mg nolvadex ed.

Preserving muscle mass is actually not that difficult provided diet and training are in order, which is why I have suggested lowering your dosages.

MK

Thanks for the input P22. I thought because of the short acting ester that tren must be used every day. And as for the d-bol that sounds like a good low dose but once again I must ask should I start the cycle with it and run it all the way throughout or start it around week 3-4 and finish it off with the tren so I have two short acting anabolics to come off on?

Also, I will head your advice in regards to the cardio but I have had good success with a sprint/jog type interval workout worked in the middle of a typical aerobic style workout.

My buddy is a fireman and he has these 50 foot firehoses that you can connect and run sprint-drags with them that will kick anybody’s ass. I might use these every other leg workout.

Anyway, thanks for the input

Thanks Mike, its good to keep it simple but I fell in love with tren last time so I am definitly keeping that in the mix. I suppose I could drop the d-bol cause your right about holding water, its just that in my original thinking I guess I thought that d-bol would somehow “kickstart” the cycle while the longer acting esters were waiting to accumulate. Any thoughts on this method?

Oh yeah, by the way I have some leftover winny 10mg tabs but only enough to run about 11 days worth at 100mg. Figured I could come off on this with the tren.

I like your avatar, prock.

Yeah, the avator is kind of funny for those “in the know”.

If you don’t mind the ed injects then yes this is preferable.

As for dbol, personally I would start it at week 3 or 4 myself as well.

As for fat loss, if you are truly trying to loose fat, then you must learn a thing or two about how your body’s energy systems work. there are two main ones. One is called anerobic glycolyisis, and it doesn’t deal with oxygen. Your white fast-twitch muscle cells best utilize this system. This system is for explosive bursts of energy. Your other system utilizes the Kreb cycle, and is aerobic. This is the system in which you can burn either fat, muscle glycogen, or muscle itself. What you burn all depends on what activity you are doing. A slow steady state activity like walking, or a EFX elyptical (which happens to be my choice for cardio) is the best method. Just make sure your heart is in the optimal zone - which on average is around 120 beats per minute. All other forms of cardio that utilize more explosive movements like running for example will burn much less fat, and more from the other sources of energy.

Just remember to drink lots of water, as you need it to assist in hydrolysis of the fatty chains, and keep in mind also that it takes about 20 minutes of this steady state cardio before you begin to burn actual bodyfat.

yes you can can loose weight doing other activities d/t a negative calorie balance, but you won’t preserve as much lean muscle any other way.

[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
If you don’t mind the ed injects then yes this is preferable.

As for dbol, personally I would start it at week 3 or 4 myself as well.

As for fat loss, if you are truly trying to loose fat, then you must learn a thing or two about how your body’s energy systems work. there are two main ones. One is called anerobic glycolyisis, and it doesn’t deal with oxygen. Your white fast-twitch muscle cells best utilize this system. This system is for explosive bursts of energy. Your other system utilizes the Kreb cycle, and is aerobic. This is the system in which you can burn either fat, muscle glycogen, or muscle itself. What you burn all depends on what activity you are doing. A slow steady state activity like walking, or a EFX elyptical (which happens to be my choice for cardio) is the best method. Just make sure your heart is in the optimal zone - which on average is around 120 beats per minute. All other forms of cardio that utilize more explosive movements like running for example will burn much less fat, and more from the other sources of energy.

Just remember to drink lots of water, as you need it to assist in hydrolysis of the fatty chains, and keep in mind also that it takes about 20 minutes of this steady state cardio before you begin to burn actual bodyfat.

yes you can can loose weight doing other activities d/t a negative calorie balance, but you won’t preserve as much lean muscle any other way.[/quote]

Good post bro…Timing has a lot to do with it as well…When I do cardio, which is VERY RARELY, I take about 15g of amino acids upon rising then go hit the treadmill at a speed of 3.8 on a medium incline for 60min…I do it very sparingly however-probably only 4-6 weeks out from a show and even then it’s only 3-4x/wk…P22, do you do your cardio in the am or the pm? If I go pm I sleep like shit:(

MK

MK: For me there are two 0ptions: first is first thing in the morning before the first large meal, and second is directly afer a weight workout. You have about 40 minutes post weight workout to get in nutrients before you begin to go catabolic )providing of course that you weight routine wasn’t 3 hours long or something. In the past I have always successfully used this window for my cardio. The trick with both times of cardio to get in your meal almost immediately after your cardio session. You may even eat carbs at this point, as you are removing bodyfat, and replacing it with stores of muscle glycogen instead.

[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
If you don’t mind the ed injects then yes this is preferable.

As for dbol, personally I would start it at week 3 or 4 myself as well.

As for fat loss, if you are truly trying to loose fat, then you must learn a thing or two about how your body’s energy systems work. there are two main ones. One is called anerobic glycolyisis, and it doesn’t deal with oxygen. Your white fast-twitch muscle cells best utilize this system. This system is for explosive bursts of energy. Your other system utilizes the Kreb cycle, and is aerobic. This is the system in which you can burn either fat, muscle glycogen, or muscle itself. What you burn all depends on what activity you are doing. A slow steady state activity like walking, or a EFX elyptical (which happens to be my choice for cardio) is the best method. Just make sure your heart is in the optimal zone - which on average is around 120 beats per minute. All other forms of cardio that utilize more explosive movements like running for example will burn much less fat, and more from the other sources of energy.

Just remember to drink lots of water, as you need it to assist in hydrolysis of the fatty chains, and keep in mind also that it takes about 20 minutes of this steady state cardio before you begin to burn actual bodyfat.

yes you can can loose weight doing other activities d/t a negative calorie balance, but you won’t preserve as much lean muscle any other way.[/quote]

Thanks for the informative post and yes I do know a good deal about energy systems work already. I realize that in an aerobic type of workout you will defitnitly burn a higher ratio of bodyfat then you would an anaerobic style of workout. I also know that during a anaerobic workout you will burn more calories way after the exercise has ended unlike the aerobic variety. Through personal experiences I have had luck with both but find the anaerobic type more mentally challenging and stimulating. Now I’m sure this is through caloric expenditure only and lord knows I need to burn some calories but are you opposed to trying to combining both in the same workout? For example say you did a steady jog or stationary or whatever for a total of 40 minutes after your weight traing workout in your target heart range. But at the halfway point of the cardio session do 10 minutes of intervals and then go back to 125 bpm for the rest of the workout. Does this have any validity? I am thinking that if you are a competitor at very low bf levels such as yourself that low intensity cardio that burns strictly bf will shed that last little bit. But in my case where I’m carrying at least 10% that I need to mix it up like this and work harder all around. What do you think?

Oh, by the way, thanks for responding to my other post about the d-bol and tren. I am at a loss as to what to do with the d-bol just because I think it may be overkill with all the drugs in my system at once with the test/eq/tren/d-bol. Since it is primarily a bodyfat reduction cycle would you just save the d-bol for another time or throw it in the mix? Remember I do have about 14 days worth of winny tabs to come off on at the end with the tren.

When dieting, I have experienced the need to use more gear just to maintain my musculature than when on a bulking cycle. In my opinion more gear is better. Also dbol and winny when combined with class 1s do have synergy together. It is however completely up to you, as in the end the difference either way may only be a pound or two of lean muscle, maybe more, but maybe even less than that.

As for the Cardio question, this is what I have to say. Every single activity you do, your body attempts to adapt/ remodel itself to better perform that given activity. If it is lean muscle you are trying to spare, then sprints, and high intesity cardio are not for you. The bodybuilder does not want to end up with a build of an iron man athelete if you know what I mean!

Now of course this applies much more sereously to the natural bodybuilder than the chemically enhanced, but the same principles do apply. Most of the top bodybuilders if you ask them these days will tell you the most cardio they do is just walking on the tred mill. Many don’t even do any cardio at all, but just depend on their diet. When you have a large percentage of muscle mass, it is also much easier to shed fat.