T Nation

What Supplement to Invest In?


#1

I'm 5'5" and am a stocky muscular frame at 225lbs currently. I did get to 10% body fat once at weight 178 lbs and maintained for over a year (I want to be around 200lbs and 10% body fat). I was in the gym 5-6 days a week; cardio, weight training, protein powder and proper diet from age about 23 to 27. Life sucked, back on my feet now age 32 I have been back to the gym full force for 5 months, 5 days a week 1hr of cardio vascular a day keeping my heart rate around 130 for fat burn only (I went from 255lbs to 225lbs in this amount of time and regained a lot of my muscle).

I'm stocky and it has always been hard keeping my body leaned out and removing stubborn fat. I also have thinning hair from age 28 on right after my last year at the gym. I never had health problems or major surgery and I want to avoid/prevent any cancers, prostate or other male problems as I age, including continuing to go bald (I been using rogaine for years, hair loss seems to have slowed). I have always had a sleeping problem were I can sleep 8 hrs and feel like I didn't get much sleep.

I am on a non processed food diet mostly all natural; whole grain everything, no salt, processed carb or sugar anything, quaker oat meal, fish oil, glucosamine, high quality protein powder blend with all the amino acids and other ingredients the top sellers have, natural protein and carbs from foods and a multivitamin stack.

"I want a testosterone booster, prostate health, hair regrowth, better night sleep and fat burner in one pill".

I don't want to sign up for anything right now or give any credit card information to anyone other then e-bay. I prefer to buy supplements from e-bay in a month to month basis for around $45 per purchase as I cant commit financially but I may want to buy for a few months, cant afford so skip a month then continue taking as finances allow.

I only have a small amount of money so I want the most bang for my buck off the bat. I would like you to recommend the best pill for these needs for that price and that purchasing style.


#2

Well, it’s usually considered poor form to ask on any supplement company’s website what specific products should be purchased elsewhere from other companies. General categories is fine. Let alone to say you won’t buy from anyone but ebay, which means you’re saying you won’t buy here. There are many readers who don’t, which is fine, but not many that are blatant that they rule out buying here.

As for wanting all this “in one pill” it’s not going to happen.

On your diet, see if your multivitamin provides iodide. If not, you are likely deficient given your described diet. Your diet might well be too low in fat as well.


#3

I have looked at so many products, testimonies and reviews to make anyone’s head spin. I did’t review this form much before my post and I thought is was more of a free forum where any and all issues could be discussed and information and input on any product.I am interested in going all out in the diet and supplement department now along with my current diet and stage regimen. I didn’t want to get sucked here but it’s probably the only way I am going to do this properly.

The other forum had didn’t even respond thinking pretty much what you said so, I appreciate at least the response. I’m a real person with real questions others could probably relate to and my “blatant honesty” is probably more ignorance then how i would feel or what i would do with proper information. I will post pics, fill out me profile and probably become a avid poster and member if I felt this was the place for me to get the best help.

Current stack
*generic complete multivitamin adults under 50
(I know this is not all natural vitamin and I plan on upgrading vitamins next refill if finances allow)
*generic omega 3 fish oil pills 1000mg 3-4X a day
*generic glucosamine 500mg 3-4X a day
*protein powder blend with bcaa and amino acids

I did cut all the fat, salt, sugar and carbs out and results were slow at first. I started noticing more fat loss when I took a 1 week break from that diet on week 13 (doing that diet for that long even know it didn’t work for me was hard dedication).

I would like to improve on my current genetic supplements but do the math and add the 2 new supplements i want to add, who’s got that kind of money per month for all that?

I want to cycle the test booster on month to try it. Test booster I chose prevents testosterone from turning into Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) which causes hair loss, it has a fat burner as well as a few other perks. The sleep aid and test booster I listed have all the ingredients I am seeking.

I know I cant get a all in one pill but these 2 new products I want to add to my current stack will more round out my diet that will achieve the goals I want. If you have products similar, let me hear em or the input on my research.

I wrote this whole post before I even subscribed to the 2 forums I recently joined last night because it was a question to someone who did testosterone booster reviews, (his recommendation was still to subscribe and buy from him). every where I went to get input on this research someone wanted me to subscribe to something or buy something. I even almost fell for the “ultimate muscle black edition scam” because Floyd Mayweather vouched for the stuff bing’s homepage but that’s what got me interested in adding more to my stack.

I saw some pictures of my on fb of me i didn’t think were too flattering and became upset with body a few days ago. I feel strong and good about all my efforts thus far and in my mind i actually thought i look way better then i do obviously my gf said it was the camera angle but still not happy. My efforts are now 120% and i’m using pre-workout samples I have this week (I used to just drink raw oat meal and water before workouts) because I been feeling really tired all the time.

I obviously know somewhat of what I’m doing and did plenty of research, my diet has changed for the better and I’m moving forward. This forum could be my new best friend if people are willing to invest a little time in reading this.


#4

Provided you don’t use any of these, which I doubt if you have experience already.

-since you’re lifting, the only one I’d keep is…Plazma IMO you won’t find a more convenient deal for an all in one product intra workout. Haters will say it’s expensive and all and you could do your own with peptides, sugars, minerals… But how about simply diluting 2 scoops in water, and not have to think about dosages and all that? Worth the price.

  • maybe Superfood, and I’m not even sure

  • actually taking care of basic foods (read the Vegan/vegetarian topic and mertdawg and Bill Roberts’ posts there) will be good for anyone. People often state that the number one supplement is creatine, or omegas 3/fish oil, or multivitamins, or leucine, or bcaa… Eating raw-ish animals+vegs take care of those


#5

Also, cutting fat is beyond outdated


#6

Wow, 2 awesome suggestions. Im going to do a little more research on these and possibly try instead of what I originally had in mind. I don’t mind ordering from here as all this looks pretty legit. Im gonna buy 1 or 2 supplements, like I said there’s so much out there with so many different opinions it’s overwhelming.


#7

Superfood
Plazma
Rez-V
Z-12

4 items in the cart

I want all of these but do I need all of these and can I stack all of these?

The price is an ouch but I did put a lot in the cart. Im looking for an explosion for month 6 and defiantly cannot afford all of these plus my current stack including protein powder blend each month but I might just bite the bullet and give it a go. I been researching things for days now and Im itching to try new supplements.

I don’t know if I can scrap up the cash for all of these and contrary to my original method of saving money these are all name brand and a few bucks more.

I wont have the money to get this each month so If I stacked these for month 6, what should I defiantly keep for month 7? Ill probably come to a conclusion after trying and sorry for all the questions as I’m sure you answer them on the daily.


#8

I would definitely keep the Plazma. Your recovery ability with it and your work capacity will probably get a huge boost using it. The `be unbreakable’ line isn’t joking.

Superfood - I’ve used it a couple times. If you don’t eat many fruits and vegetables it’s a good addition but if you’re on a tight budget it’s probably not necessary.

Rez-V - I used about 4 bottles of it so about 3 months of use. I didn’t really feel anything different but it’s not really a supplement you would feel. There’s some research about health benefits. Again, on a budget it’s probably not a necessity.

Z-12 - if you have trouble sleeping it might be a good addition. I had some really weird dreams taking it but I’ve not heard many people say the same. Most people will tell you they get a lot better sleep with it. I’ve heard it doesn’t make you fall asleep but it keeps you asleep. You might also look into ZMA or Elitepro Minerals. The magnesium is pretty relaxing.

I’m sure somebody with more experience will answer (like Bill) but the one thing in that list I would definitely keep using is the Plazma.


#9

Agreed on Plazma. It gives as much benefit to working out as is now known how to do.

You did have a really tight budget as originally described, so if you find yourself where Plazma really cannot be bought, Surge Recovery is an excellent, much less expensive option. To compare the two, Plazma is the best workout supplementation that it’s now known how to do. Surge Recovery is not: it was the best knowledge as of when it was introduced.

It doesn’t provide the major increase in possible workout intensity that Plazma does, nor have the soreness reducing-or-eliminating effect, and when at a plateau for muscle gain, on adding it doesn’t provide the major improvement that Plazma does. But, when in a position to gain muscle well anyway with good training, diet, and workout nutrition, Surge Recovery is very good. If you find yourself where you can’t buy the Plazma, I’d go with Surge Recovery rather than with whey or various other powders.

Z-12. Before Z-12 I had, I suppose, 20 years of not sleeping solidly in my first six hours of sleep, but only lightly with repeated re-awakenings. So I’d be poorly rested after 8 hours, and not that well even at 9 hours. With Z-12, for many years of use now, that’s just not an issue, and I’m refreshed at 8 hours. There are a great number of customer testimonies on this one, it’s an extremely well-received product. Where it will not work as well is where the problem is falling asleep in the first place, as it doesn’t induce drowsiness. But once asleep, sleep is much more sound.

When having a sleep problem such as pauls83 describes, it’s hard or impossible for any supplement to give more benefit for the dollar than you get from improvement in sleep quality.

Improved sleep may improve the other problems as well.

On fish oil, take a look at the DHA content as that’s a much more valid indicator of usefulness than total of DHA/EPA. As shipping is free, Flameout could be considered and while it may appear to cost more, he may find that for DHA content, it’s less expensive. It doesn’t necessarily have to be used at the full label dose. There is benefit to smaller, personally-affordable doses as well.

Testosterone booster (on the original concerns), I would save your money on this budget.

Rez-V, on a tight budget I would omit it.

Superfood, excellent addition for health.


#10

Bill, out of curiosity how would you suggest loading the Surge Recovery for a beginner/intermediate lifter who only wants to use, say, one (2-scoop, 330 kcal) dose per workout?


#11

It’s best used actually more similarly to Plazma than according to the original recommendation. Three or four scoops into preferably at least a liter of water, and preferably 1.5 or 2 liters.

Four scoops if not necessarily having post workout nutrition absolutely right away; three if you are going to.

Have about 1/4 or 1/3 of the drink about 15 minutes before the workout, and the rest during. With 3 scoops, finishing it up by near the end of the workout; with 4 scoops, drinking it all if need be, but if what naturally happens is that a portion of the drink is left at the end of the workout, finish it immediately on completing the workout.


#12

Oh, I’m sorry, your question was specifically two scoops.

Then as above, but having nearly half the drink pre workout, the rest in the first half of the workout, and getting some good post workout food promptly after the workout.


#13

Thanks, that’s helpful. I usually use Plazma, but when traveling I’ve used Surge Recovery in the past just for convenience, and it’s what I’m thinking of recommending as a “starter” product to a couple of lifters new to Biotest / peri-workout nutrition.

I have noticed for myself though that drinking the Surge during a workout makes me feel a little weird, in terms of digestion / stomach (not the case w/ Plazma). I imagine drinking half 15 minutes before and the other half right after workout wouldn’t be too much worse than the above recommendation?


#14

The factor there is the higher osmolality (basically, how many molecules are in solution per liter) of a Surge Recovery drink versus Plazma. As the glucose of SR is single molecules, it’s as high a number of molecules as it could be for a given number of grams of carbs. The cyclic dextrin of Plazma allows a much lower number of molecules.

This affects rate of water absorption. The osmolality of SR is well above optimal for rate of water absorption. It actually feels better with more water, as the osmolality is lower. But the water will not absorb as fast as with Plazma.

Surge Recovery can be used as a strictly before-and-after (not during) protocol and that works well also. I think it’s not as optimal, but I used that protocol for many years and was very satisfied with it.


#15

But, with two scoops I believe I would do it only before, and then have suitable postworkout food as promptly after the workout as possible. Only one scoop beforehand and one after would really be stinting it. In a before and after protocol, I never used less than 2 scoops each occasion, nor has that ever been a common use. (Never heard of it actually, which isn’t to say it never happened but I’m pretty sure it must be rare.)


#16

Great info, thank you! I’m going to try adding more water next time I use it.


#17

[quote]pauls83 wrote:
I’m 5’5" and am a stocky muscular frame at 225lbs currently. I did get to 10% body fat once at weight 178 lbs and maintained for over a year.[/quote]

Dude, I REALLY don’t want to sound offensive, but if you were 178# at 10% body fat and 5’5", you were VERY advanced and it surprises me with that sort of accomplishment you would even be inquiring about what to use!


#18

5’5" was 10% body fat at age 25-27 started working out at age 23. I lost it all when real life hit real hard. I’m back on the hog at age 32 not working out after age 27. Body fat unknown but when I started again March 3rd at 5’5’ at 255 lbs I wasn’t on my “A game”, I had just started again. I do have experience in the gym and I have made extreme gains in 5 months from muscle memory and previous knowledge.

I had used suppliments before mostly in the protein with bcaa and amino acids, glucosamine, carb powder and glutamine, at that age its probably all I needed. I am a solid 225lbs at 5’5" now so not at the top of my A game currently. I am aging now at the age of 32 and I want to be back to where I was 12 months after coming back from a 5 yr break so, I am going all out and up for supplement help because I want to be the beast I was and more for my life for the future. I may have more experience then some but in the world of weight lifting and nutrition I am a noob.

I have decided on ordering…

Plazma
Z-12

for sure this month :smiley:

I have my vitamins, glucosamine, protein powder blend and omega 3 pills on stack already. I am really interested in preventing the production of DHT in my body but I am researching the test boosters more before foolishly wasting money on them (I will pick one by next month). August 3rd is my 6 mo start date and I am confident in my diet and supplement regime partially to this forum so far.

I’m back and here for the long haul so, you will see my profile eventually fill out and maybe after another 6 months I can give advice to the newer members :slight_smile:

I have decided to order form this forum and stick here, a little goes a long way and I have been shown help and compassion in my short time here. Lets beast and I’ll post my reviews on these products when applicable :slight_smile:


#19

[quote]pauls83 wrote:
5’5" was 10% body fat at age 25-27 started working out at age 23. I lost it all when real life hit real hard. I’m back on the hog at age 32 not working out after age 27. Body fat unknown but when I started again March 3rd at 5’5’ at 255 lbs I wasn’t on my “A game”, I had just started again. I do have experience in the gym and I have made extreme gains in 5 months from muscle memory and previous knowledge.

I had used suppliments before mostly in the protein with bcaa and amino acids, glucosamine, carb powder and glutamine, at that age its probably all I needed. I am a solid 225lbs at 5’5" now so not at the top of my A game currently. I am aging now at the age of 32 and I want to be back to where I was 12 months after coming back from a 5 yr break so, I am going all out and up for supplement help because I want to be the beast I was and more for my life for the future. I may have more experience then some but in the world of weight lifting and nutrition I am a noob.

I have decided on ordering…

Plazma
Z-12

for sure this month :smiley:

I have my vitamins, glucosamine, protein powder blend and omega 3 pills on stack already. I am really interested in preventing the production of DHT in my body but I am researching the test boosters more before foolishly wasting money on them (I will pick one by next month). August 3rd is my 6 mo start date and I am confident in my diet and supplement regime partially to this forum so far.

I’m back and here for the long haul so, you will see my profile eventually fill out and maybe after another 6 months I can give advice to the newer members :slight_smile:

I have decided to order form this forum and stick here, a little goes a long way and I have been shown help and compassion in my short time here. Lets beast and I’ll post my reviews on these products when applicable :)[/quote]

A solid 225 pounds is HUGE for a 5’5" man. It implies you have the development of offseason drug aided pro bodybuilders. This would be huge for a 5’10" man as well!

Seriously, the only supplements I believe you should use right now are those which are like food, and that’s if you NEED them for whatever reason, stuff like Plazma, FINiBARs bars, and protein powder. I can’t stand protein powder but I love FINiBARs and Plazma for PWO nutrition and use them regularly.


#20

[quote]pauls83 wrote:

I have decided on ordering…

Plazma
Z-12

for sure this month :smiley:
[/quote]

Good choices, especially if your basics are already covered (protein, vitamins, joint support etc).

And to echo Brick, 5’5, 178 lbs at 10% bodyfat is pretty damn huge.

S