T Nation

What Should I Start With?

Back when I was in my late 20s/early 30s, I used to use EQ stacked with deca, and end with clomid. I’m 44 now. I’m sure there must be better stuff out there now a days.

I’m in Mexico, so please; only suggest stuff that’s available to me locally.

I’ve seen alot of people tossing around Test Enanthate and DBOL stacks as a recommended starter now a days.

I want to lose the fat I’ve gained over the last several years and gain some of my muscles back, or at least tone-up and lean-out.

Diet and training is the key factor not drugs

I want drugs to make the process easier.

Next time you have a cold, wouldn’t you take something to make pass it easier? Sure you would.

Yea but what you take for a cold doesn’t have a chance to fuck you up in the long run.

You clearly haven’t put in any effort to research. Educate yourself, and come back with a proposition, rather than asking to get spoon fed.

you’d be surprised how far your body can go without drugs, but if you decided to go back that path i wish you the best!

(on a side note, if you want advice with planning your cycle you should post as much stats as you can on your current self. height weight bodyfat training style (any breaks?) diet and whatever you can think of)

Your not in your late 20’s anymore so you wouldn’t be able to get away with stuff you did back in the day, but a very basic cycle of testosterone (any ester you prefer) will do. For your goal you might wanna stay away from Dianabol, it causes water retention (which is perfectly treatable with arimidex) and in sensitive people the notorious moonface.

If your goal is to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time, it’s possible but it’s not realistic with testosterone (at least not at the same time, for these goals to be achieved simultaneously you’d need very harsh compounds like trenbolone).

If you want to limit your cycle to testosterone, to reach your goal diet is golden. you’ll probably need to divide it in certain phases (or whatever you wanna call them).

in one phase of the cycle you’ll need to be in a caloric deficit to lose weight, then in another phase you’ll need to be over maintenance to gain muscle (the stricter your diet the better you’ll feel and look). The length of these phases is up to you, you can limit each phase to as little as 1 week each and repeat them over, over the course of the cycle to continuously see change in both goals. Or you could make each phase 4-6 weeks long each to get you in shape and then make solely lean muscle gains.

The length of these phases will obliviously depend on your preference and the length of the cycle.

You should start with a dieting phase, the lower your bodyfat the leaner your gains will be in the bulking phase
(on a side note, if you have Dianabol available you could take it in a bulking phase)

If you are uncomfortable with the fact that your body 's natural testosterone production is going to be shutdown and to fully accomplish your goal you’ll need a longer cycle, thus meaning your body will take a longer time to recover which will take an eternity in your head (lowered libido, depression and your going to lose your gains, it’s inevitable)

There are a couple of alternatives you could take if so,

You could do shorter cycles, some call them 2 weekers (made famous by Bill Roberts). The idea behind them is your testes will not go “asleep” if you limit use to 2 weeks and will be sensitive to LH, this often causes above your normal testosterone production for about a week (some people claim they continue to make gains in week 3 while on no compounds)

(i don’t know your marital position) Another benefit for you is if you are a married man been 44 shorter cycles can be used for “staying under the radar” so to say. I doubt you are eager to have your wife/girlfriend/children ask you how you suddenly lost fat and gained muscle.
Another problem could be your job, i don’t know about Mexico but in some countries companies randomly test for drug use.

Gains been more gradual and you experiencing less post cycle depression due to shutdown and lost gains, It will be alot less questionable if you gained 20 pounds of lean muscle and be ripped in 10 weeks, then slowly losing fat and gaining pound by pound of muscle over the year.

Another alternative witch might be appealing for you might be supplementing with HGH, it’s popular among aging people cause it’s known for making your body younger. You’ll lose fat easier and gain some muscle, it has alot of qualities such as improving your skin and hair. If you have any it could also aid in speeding up recovery of injuries and much more.

It won’t interfere in anyway with your natural testosterone production and it’s undetectable, the only downside been it’s pricey and often faked.

these are 3 options you could take, pick which sounds most appealing and members in here will be able to give you advice based on that decision and keep us posted afterward (don’t go silent after receiving advice like many do)

have a nice day!

[quote]barcef wrote:
I want drugs to make the process easier.

Next time you have a cold, wouldn’t you take something to make pass it easier? Sure you would.[/quote]

Well that right there just proves you are lazy, your diet probably sucks and your training probably sucks and guarantee after your shitty cycle you’ll be too lazy to do anything I keep the gains and go right
Back to where you were

Do 30 minutes fasted cardio a day and clean up your diet. Will save you a lot of money and a lot of trouble.

[quote]dutchie1 wrote:
you’d be surprised how far your body can go without drugs, but if you decided to go back that path i wish you the best!
[/quote]Thank you for such an informative response. I really was expecting a response more like some of the others. I try to always abide by the rule that if you don’t have anything constructive to say, better not to say anythign at all.[quote]
(on a side note, if you want advice with planning your cycle you should post as much stats as you can on your current self. height weight bodyfat training style (any breaks?) diet and whatever you can think of)[/quote]I really don’t know my body fat, but it’s fair to say that I’ve let myself go. I weight 280 pounds and I’m 5’9". I don’t eat any carbs nor sugar. Pure meats, vegetables, fruits and dairy products. I workout every other day on the cardio bikes and do 3 10 minutes sessions always increasing the load when it feels my legs can take it.[quote]

Your not in your late 20’s anymore so you wouldn’t be able to get away with stuff you did back in the day, but a very basic cycle of testosterone (any ester you prefer) will do. For your goal you might wanna stay away from Dianabol, it causes water retention (which is perfectly treatable with arimidex) and in sensitive people the notorious moonface.
[/quote]Thanks for the warning on the DBOL. I didn’t realize that. I located test. enanthane and equipoise. I’m going to try a cycle of pure test enanthane and ending with clomid to startup my natural test producion.[quote]

If your goal is to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time, it’s possible but it’s not realistic with testosterone (at least not at the same time, for these goals to be achieved simultaneously you’d need very harsh compounds like trenbolone).[/quote]If it only makes it easier to increase the load on my workouts, and helps me recover from the workouts faster, I’ll be happy.[quote]

If you want to limit your cycle to testosterone, to reach your goal diet is golden. you’ll probably need to divide it in certain phases (or whatever you wanna call them).

in one phase of the cycle you’ll need to be in a caloric deficit to lose weight, then in another phase you’ll need to be over maintenance to gain muscle (the stricter your diet the better you’ll feel and look). The length of these phases is up to you, you can limit each phase to as little as 1 week each and repeat them over, over the course of the cycle to continuously see change in both goals. Or you could make each phase 4-6 weeks long each to get you in shape and then make solely lean muscle gains.

The length of these phases will obliviously depend on your preference and the length of the cycle.

You should start with a dieting phase, the lower your bodyfat the leaner your gains will be in the bulking phase
(on a side note, if you have Dianabol available you could take it in a bulking phase)
[/quote]What I’m actually considering is the first stack shown here. fastgearhere.com/proven-cyclesstacks/proven-cyclesstacks/
But I’m goingto remove the DBOL for the water retention.

[quote]

If you are uncomfortable with the fact that your body 's natural testosterone production is going to be shutdown and to fully accomplish your goal you’ll need a longer cycle, thus meaning your body will take a longer time to recover which will take an eternity in your head (lowered libido, depression and your going to lose your gains, it’s inevitable)
[/quote]Yes, I’m considering a 12-14 week cycle and ending with clomid[quote]
There are a couple of alternatives you could take if so,

You could do shorter cycles, some call them 2 weekers (made famous by Bill Roberts). The idea behind them is your testes will not go “asleep” if you limit use to 2 weeks and will be sensitive to LH, this often causes above your normal testosterone production for about a week (some people claim they continue to make gains in week 3 while on no compounds)

(i don’t know your marital position) Another benefit for you is if you are a married man been 44 shorter cycles can be used for “staying under the radar” so to say. I doubt you are eager to have your wife/girlfriend/children ask you how you suddenly lost fat and gained muscle.
Another problem could be your job, i don’t know about Mexico but in some countries companies randomly test for drug use.
[/quote]My wife knows and hoping for a plus side on the libido. Children are preteen, and probably would like to have dad be more active with them(another plus). I work for myself so there is no such thing as testing for me.[quote]
Gains been more gradual and you experiencing less post cycle depression due to shutdown and lost gains, It will be alot less questionable if you gained 20 pounds of lean muscle and be ripped in 10 weeks, then slowly losing fat and gaining pound by pound of muscle over the year.

Another alternative witch might be appealing for you might be supplementing with HGH, it’s popular among aging people cause it’s known for making your body younger. You’ll lose fat easier and gain some muscle, it has alot of qualities such as improving your skin and hair. If you have any it could also aid in speeding up recovery of injuries and much more.
[/quote]The HGH sounds great!! If there is any brand that you can recommend that’s locally availabel to me, please let me know.[quote]
It won’t interfere in anyway with your natural testosterone production and it’s undetectable, the only downside been it’s pricey and often faked.

these are 3 options you could take, pick which sounds most appealing and members in here will be able to give you advice based on that decision and keep us posted afterward (don’t go silent after receiving advice like many do)
[/quote]I won’t stay silent. I appreciate you taking the time to inform me.[quote]

have a nice day![/quote]

[quote]CxTucker wrote:
Educate yourself, and come back with a proposition, rather than asking to get spoon fed.[/quote]

That’s the problem people say they want you to “educate yourself”, but no one tells you how to go about doing it. Where do you recommend I start? Have a specific recommended reading list?

I already have:
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/AnabolicSteroidsUserGuide.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/AS profiles.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/bodybuilding_-_Chemical_Muscle_Enhancement__steroids.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Chemical Wizardry Complete (Bodybuilding).pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/ChemicalWizardryAnabolicSteroidsetcforBodybuilders.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Chris Report.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Complete.Steroid.Handbook.2004.Edition.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/GH.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/gh_university_study.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/InjectingAnabolicSteroids.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/IntraMuscularInjection.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/MAIL-ORDER-COMPLETE.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/NewbiesGudie_v1.01.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/NewbiesSteroidGuide.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/STER_1.PDF
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/STER_2.PDF
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Steroids - Mail Order Complete (Bodybuilding).pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Steroids - The Laymans Guide 1 (Bodybuilding).pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Steroids - The Laymans Guide 2 (Bodybuilding).pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Steroids for Bodybuilding (1).pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Steroids.doc
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/SteroidSynonyms.pdf

I’ve already started off reading the newbie guides.

just do 12 weeks of test E at 500mg, kickstart with 40mg dbol the first 4 weeks, adex at .5mg eod tapering down the last week before pct, hcg 250iu twice a week up until 3 days before PCT, PCT 2 weeks after your last pin of clomid for 4 weeks at 50mg a day.

Done.

[quote]barcef wrote:

[quote]CxTucker wrote:
Educate yourself, and come back with a proposition, rather than asking to get spoon fed.[/quote]

That’s the problem people say they want you to “educate yourself”, but no one tells you how to go about doing it. Where do you recommend I start? Have a specific recommended reading list?

I already have:
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/AnabolicSteroidsUserGuide.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/AS profiles.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/bodybuilding_-_Chemical_Muscle_Enhancement__steroids.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Chemical Wizardry Complete (Bodybuilding).pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/ChemicalWizardryAnabolicSteroidsetcforBodybuilders.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Chris Report.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Complete.Steroid.Handbook.2004.Edition.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/GH.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/gh_university_study.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/InjectingAnabolicSteroids.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/IntraMuscularInjection.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/MAIL-ORDER-COMPLETE.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/NewbiesGudie_v1.01.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/NewbiesSteroidGuide.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/STER_1.PDF
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/STER_2.PDF
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Steroids - Mail Order Complete (Bodybuilding).pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Steroids - The Laymans Guide 1 (Bodybuilding).pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Steroids - The Laymans Guide 2 (Bodybuilding).pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Steroids for Bodybuilding (1).pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Steroids.doc
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/SteroidSynonyms.pdf

I’ve already started off reading the newbie guides. [/quote]

If you have honestly read all of that then you would have an idea of what your doing.

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]barcef wrote:

[quote]CxTucker wrote:
Educate yourself, and come back with a proposition, rather than asking to get spoon fed.[/quote]

That’s the problem people say they want you to “educate yourself”, but no one tells you how to go about doing it. Where do you recommend I start? Have a specific recommended reading list?

I already have:
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/AnabolicSteroidsUserGuide.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/AS profiles.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/bodybuilding_-_Chemical_Muscle_Enhancement__steroids.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Chemical Wizardry Complete (Bodybuilding).pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/ChemicalWizardryAnabolicSteroidsetcforBodybuilders.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Chris Report.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Complete.Steroid.Handbook.2004.Edition.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/GH.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/gh_university_study.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/InjectingAnabolicSteroids.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/IntraMuscularInjection.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/MAIL-ORDER-COMPLETE.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/NewbiesGudie_v1.01.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/NewbiesSteroidGuide.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/STER_1.PDF
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/STER_2.PDF
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Steroids - Mail Order Complete (Bodybuilding).pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Steroids - The Laymans Guide 1 (Bodybuilding).pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Steroids - The Laymans Guide 2 (Bodybuilding).pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Steroids for Bodybuilding (1).pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Steroids.doc
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/SteroidSynonyms.pdf

I’ve already started off reading the newbie guides. [/quote]

If you have honestly read all of that then you would have an idea of what your doing.[/quote]
Read the whole thing. The last line says , " I’ve already started off reading …". Please stop jumping to conclusions.

[quote]Yogi wrote:
just do 12 weeks of test E at 500mg, kickstart with 40mg dbol the first 4 weeks, adex at .5mg eod tapering down the last week before pct, hcg 250iu twice a week up until 3 days before PCT, PCT 2 weeks after your last pin of clomid for 4 weeks at 50mg a day.

Done.[/quote]
Sounds like a plan.

[quote]barcef wrote:

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]barcef wrote:

[quote]CxTucker wrote:
Educate yourself, and come back with a proposition, rather than asking to get spoon fed.[/quote]

That’s the problem people say they want you to “educate yourself”, but no one tells you how to go about doing it. Where do you recommend I start? Have a specific recommended reading list?

I already have:
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/AnabolicSteroidsUserGuide.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/AS profiles.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/bodybuilding_-_Chemical_Muscle_Enhancement__steroids.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Chemical Wizardry Complete (Bodybuilding).pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/ChemicalWizardryAnabolicSteroidsetcforBodybuilders.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Chris Report.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Complete.Steroid.Handbook.2004.Edition.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/GH.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/gh_university_study.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/InjectingAnabolicSteroids.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/IntraMuscularInjection.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/MAIL-ORDER-COMPLETE.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/NewbiesGudie_v1.01.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/NewbiesSteroidGuide.pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/STER_1.PDF
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/STER_2.PDF
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Steroids - Mail Order Complete (Bodybuilding).pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Steroids - The Laymans Guide 1 (Bodybuilding).pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Steroids - The Laymans Guide 2 (Bodybuilding).pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Steroids for Bodybuilding (1).pdf
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/Steroids.doc
file:///home/fbc/Library/Gear/SteroidSynonyms.pdf

I’ve already started off reading the newbie guides. [/quote]

If you have honestly read all of that then you would have an idea of what your doing.[/quote]
Read the whole thing. The last line says , " I’ve already started off reading …". Please stop jumping to conclusions.[/quote]

I didnt jump to anything I said “if”… Either way you started reading so keep reading.