T Nation

What Really Motivates?

Some of you guys know that in the past we’ve gotten into some heated “discussions” on my feelings about “Motivational” Speakers; their large gatherings, with people doing the wave and lighting candles; and the obscene sums of money Corporations will spend on them. (Needless to say, I’m not a big fan, and have almost gotten fired when my Company wanted me to go to one).

Questions I pose to you all

  1. Don’t you think that what “motivates” a person is very individual?

Example: I’m not motivated by being yelled and screamed at in the gym any more than I am by a “yeller and screamer” in the bedroom. (In case you’re interested, I love soft gasp, whispers and coos of appreciation and reciprication…)

  1. What do you think about “group” motivation?

(Of course it exist; dictators, despits and Leaders of Armies have historically depended on it).

But what about those not fighting a Revolution or a War? Are we motivated because we WANT to be; or because there are people who can really touch “thousands”?

Discuss?
I’m open to you guys thoughts…

Mufasa

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Some of you guys know that in the past we’ve gotten into some heated “discussions” on my feelings about “Motivational” Speakers; their large gatherings, with people doing the wave and lighting candles; and the obscene sums of money Corporations will spend on them. (Needless to say, I’m not a big fan, and have almost gotten fired when my Company wanted me to go to one).

Questions I pose to you all

  1. Don’t you think that what “motivates” a person is very individual?[/quote]

Not only this, but it depends on the receptivity one may have, which also depends on if you believe in said topic that you’re being motivated “for.” Furthermore, you may be motivated by what physical conditions you currently experience (hunger, temperature, aggression, etc.).

Lastly, your receptivity to motivational talk may depend on how weak willed or non-independant you live life. Mob mentality is very easy to go along with, but a master of his own life shrugs off any other than his own impulses.

It is my belief that the majority of people in life react to lifes’ situations. This is in stark contrast to being aware of said situation, considering the many possible outcomes from the various responses that are available, and making the best decision.

The mob is not aware. It is an irrational entity, channeled by a master manipulator for his/their own ends, often regardless of any harm. Kim Jong-Il. Adolf Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Jim Jones to name a few.

People want to believe. It stops them from having to think. Thinking is hard. And you may know that here in America, people are friggin’ dumb.

If you can’t motivate yourself… either you should not do “it,” or you have cast yourself as actor in your life, not participator.

  1. Yes, motivation is individual. Necessity is the mother of motivation. You’re not going to do something unless it is better than doing something else, that is, provides you with more rewards and/or less challenges than doing another thing would. Charles Staley wrote an excellent article about personal motivation, “Why I don’t want to power clean 315 pounds”:

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1080542

  1. I don’t believe dictators, et al, are motivators. They just take advantage of the motivation or malaise of many people and bend it toward a certain aim. Check out “The True Believer” by Eric Hoffer. It goes right to the heart of the pre-conditions and genesis of all mass movements.

Great thoughts, guys!

I think that there is a LOT of truth to the idea of believing in what you are being motivated in, etc.

My Boss at that time finally said that I didn’t have to go because he didn’t think I was “in the right mindset” so wouldn’t benefit from the speaker.

It seems like he was recognizing the need for a certain “belief” going in.

Mufasa

By the way, I also agree with the idea that Dictators do not truly motivate.

If so, fear, intimidation, torture, mass killings and thought supression, etc. wouldn’t have to be such an integral part of their modus operandi.

Mufasa

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
My Boss at that time finally said that I didn’t have to go because he didn’t think I was “in the right mindset” so wouldn’t benefit from the speaker.

It seems like he was recognizing the need for a certain “belief” going in.[/quote]

More like a certain “need to believe”.

What motivates any person is completely subjective and up to that person.

Luckily, language interpretation is ALSO subjective.

If I start jibber-jabbering about “wealth, happiness, more success” it means a completely different thing to EVERY person who hears it.

If I ask you how you’d feel when you realise you are already achieving and moving towards more of the things you want in your life, if I start talking about how you are already getting better and better, how you are already beginning to see the results and that you may be beginning to realise you are achieving your greatest goals now …

well how does that make you feel? different for everyone but generally, talking like that isn’t going to make you feel depressed.

dictators etc… just pop in and jibber jabber about things that are on the minds of everyone at once. Hitler for example was talking about nation, unity, we are great people etc… which is what people wanted to hear after being downtrodden and crushed. It helps of course to have a goon squad running around killing/imprisoning anyone who said anything otherwise.

If you take out all dissent and keep jibber jabberring about airy-fairy positive concepts of happyland and we are the greatest nation, people do get fired up, motivated, and work harder and make things happen. Is that bad? not if your ultimate aim is building a strong country (instead of starting wars etc…)

There isn’t much wrong doing it for companies but wtf, why not instead of paying thousands for some pansy speaker, give everyone a bonus. Better yet, give them shares in the company and the shares are tied to the company performance+bonus.

For anything like that to work, you MUST link the desired action (work harder) to the reward (more money/better shares).

The cheapskate companies instead think they can get people to work harder and brainwash their employees into earning the reward of “happiness and professional fulfillment” and other shit.

I’ve seen companies brainwash employees like this for decades and the employees actually buy this, then retire to discover they were actually screwed on the retirement plans etc… coz the company chose brainwashing bullshit over actual tangible rewards.

I think chain motivation stemmed from positive energy is one of the most powerful things. The best example I can think of are team sports. Positive energy motivates if there is support for the direction already.

Positive energy is like plugging in an electric cord and powers up something that’s ready for the energy source. I hope that metaphor makes sense.

Kailash said:

“…More like a certain “need to believe”…”

Cool…what was the distinction you were making? Sounds interesting.

Mufasa

Magarhe said:

“…I’ve seen companies brainwash employees like this for decades and the employees actually buy this, then retire to discover they were actually screwed on the retirement plans etc… coz the company chose brainwashing bullshit over actual tangible rewards…”

Sad but VERY true…

As an aside…“Enron” was supposedly a “big spender” on these big motivational conferences.

Enough said…

Mufasa

[quote]Kailash wrote:

More like a certain “need to believe”.[/quote]

Absolutely! The need. Need to be a part of something bigger than themselves, at the same time sharing this “thing” with many others; validating the need and the feeling of communion or brotherhood, thus making the belief a reality. Thus do we creat reality, then a movement and finally a revolution.

Human psychology and mental manipulation is as dangerous as the Bubonic Plague in the “hands” of a genius madman bent on mass manipulation. Or Tony Robbins. Take your pick LOL.

[quote]kroby wrote:
Kailash wrote:
More like a certain “need to believe”.

Absolutely! The need. Need to be a part of something bigger than themselves, at the same time sharing this “thing” with many others; validating the need and the feeling of communion or brotherhood, thus making the belief a reality. Thus do we creat reality, then a movement and finally a revolution.

Human psychology and mental manipulation is as dangerous as the Bubonic Plague in the “hands” of a genius madman bent on mass manipulation. Or Tony Robbins. Take your pick LOL.[/quote]

Yeah, just like that.

Though in “The True Believer”, Eric Hoffer postulates that the person who would most readily join a mass movement is one who has given up on themselves. That is, they aren’t going to work to better their current identity, but rather toss it aside in favor of the group identity. To reject the hated, incompetant self and work instead for the realization of the group and its goals.

It has a lot to do with a lessening of personal responsibility. Life becomes easier, with less anxiety.

Really, the joining of mass movements then has little to do with the movement itself. Rather than being enticed by ideals, the joiner is instead motivated by the rejection of their solitary, hated identity and the responsibility for its happiness.

(I highly recommend “The True Believer”. It’s one of those eye-openers like Desmond Morris’s “The Naked Ape” and “The Human Zoo” which are constantly mentioned as books that should be on high school required reading lists.

You see, we have nearly all at one time or another been “True Believers”. The book makes it clear, and hopefully will help us to change.)

I didnt read anything except the title. That said, all it takes for me is an old picture of myself.

i torrented tony robbins tapes

i thought the guy was great. ive read awaken the giant within, i liked it.

i would not go to one of those big seminars though

[quote]kroby wrote:
Kailash wrote:

More like a certain “need to believe”.

Absolutely! The need. Need to be a part of something bigger than themselves, at the same time sharing this “thing” with many others; validating the need and the feeling of communion or brotherhood, thus making the belief a reality. Thus do we creat reality, then a movement and finally a revolution.

Human psychology and mental manipulation is as dangerous as the Bubonic Plague in the “hands” of a genius madman bent on mass manipulation. Or Tony Robbins. Take your pick LOL.[/quote]

You guys beat me to it! Good posts, K & K.

[quote]elliot007 wrote:
i torrented tony robbins tapes

i thought the guy was great. ive read awaken the giant within, i liked it.

i would not go to one of those big seminars though[/quote]

tony is OK he took about 5% of something that was brilliant, taught by some of the most brilliant guys of our time, then with that 5% ran around convincing lots of people that was all there is and making lots of money.

he says a lot of really stupid stuff though and doesn’t get it.

check out NLP but realise a lot of people teaching that don’t get it either.

also check out Richard Bandler and his DHE (design human engineering) stuff, although I haven’t kept in touch and don’t know if that is his latest stuff or not.

it’s is good to see the conservative psyche professions finally catching on, it’s only been, what, 30 or 40 years now.

All of the motivational speakers that I’ve seen in person seem to have some sort of hyperactivity disorder, and a strong desire to spread it.

[quote]larryb wrote:
All of the motivational speakers that I’ve seen in person seem to have some sort of hyperactivity disorder, and a strong desire to spread it.[/quote]

because they are paid a tonne of cash for the day and wired on caffein, AND there is a tendency to get fired up when you are in charge of a tonne of people.

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

Questions I pose to you all

  1. Don’t you think that what “motivates” a person is very individual?

Example: I’m not motivated by being yelled and screamed at in the gym any more than I am by a “yeller and screamer” in the bedroom. (In case you’re interested, I love soft gasp, whispers and coos of appreciation and reciprication…)

[/quote]

Guess that cuts down on the need for soundproofing the bedroom, eh? Hell, I live out in the country where no one can hear you sream…heheheh…

This is what religion is for.

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Some of you guys know that in the past we’ve gotten into some heated “discussions” on my feelings about “Motivational” Speakers; their large gatherings, with people doing the wave and lighting candles; and the obscene sums of money Corporations will spend on them. (Needless to say, I’m not a big fan, and have almost gotten fired when my Company wanted me to go to one).

Questions I pose to you all

  1. Don’t you think that what “motivates” a person is very individual?

Example: I’m not motivated by being yelled and screamed at in the gym any more than I am by a “yeller and screamer” in the bedroom. (In case you’re interested, I love soft gasp, whispers and coos of appreciation and reciprication…)

  1. What do you think about “group” motivation?

(Of course it exist; dictators, despits and Leaders of Armies have historically depended on it).

But what about those not fighting a Revolution or a War? Are we motivated because we WANT to be; or because there are people who can really touch “thousands”?

Discuss?
I’m open to you guys thoughts…

Mufasa[/quote]

Motives come in all sorts;
.Fame
.criticism
.prizes
.money
.status
.praise
.spectators
.Construction - the need to organise and build
.Achievement - the need to overcome obstacles, to strive to do something difficult and as quickly as possible.
.Exhibition - the need for self-dramatisation; to excite, amuse, shock, stir and thrill others
.Defensiveness - the need to justify ones actions
.Dominance - the need to influence or control others
.Autonomy - the need to strive for independence
.Aggression - the need to assault or injure others
.Nurturance - the need to nourish, aid or protect others
.Play - the need to relax, amuse oneself, seek diversion and entertainment
.Cognisance - the need to explore, ask questions, satisfy curiosity
.Exposition - the need to point and demonstrate, to give information, explain, interpret, lecture

This stuff i copied and pasted out of my motivation assignment.

  1. I think that a lot of things that motivate people are intrinsic but other things can take over from outside of the body for example money. Everyone is different and some motives apply to some people more than others.

  2. I cant see how i would be motivated by dictatorship at all, but yet again everyone is different.