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What Programs Do You Do Before/After Rippetoes/Stronglifts


Hey, i'm going to start listening to peoples' opinions now and stop being so stubborn about working out. Just need some advice.


I've tried lots of programs: Bruce Lee's Overall Muscularity Program, Mike Mentzer's HIT, 6-8 exercises per workout with 3-5 sets of 8-12 reps, 6-8 exercises per workout with 3-5 sets of 6-10 reps, whole-body isometric workouts, 3-5 sets of whole-body routine bodyweight exercises (e.g. push ups, handstands,wall squats and bodyweight squats, hanging of chin bar),etc. Generally I trained 3-4x a week (with the exception of HIT) and hit bodyparts on different days.
Cardio ranged from: kickboxing for 1-2 hours a session,2x a week circuit training for martial arts 2x a week, 15-20 minute jogs (treadmills to begin with, normal roads after), HIIT.
When I bulked I ate 1-1.5g protein per pound lean bodyweight,1.5-2g carbs per pound lean bodyweight and 0.375g fat per pound lean bodyweight. When I cut it was a little more protein (1.25-1.5+, 0.75-1g and 0.375g OR ketosis)

[I]What I have experienced is that Rippetoes/ doing 3-5 sets of 5 with the basic mass building movements and 2x a week with only chins/dips for triceps and ab exercises was best. I added mass and strength more than any of the above and noticeably too.[/I]

What I want to know

A. If you are 20%+ bodyfat do you cut to <20% first or go all the way to 15%? At which point should one cut before bulking?

B. To get used to good form/decrease injury, do you do 3-5 sets of 6+ reps for 6-8 exercises (or similar beginner bodybuilding routines) BEFORE doing programs like the SS or Stronglifts?

C. Do you do beginner bodybuilding routines on a cut/ketosis?

D. At which point do you start creating your own workouts with accessory exercises OR using the workouts found in magazines like M&F and Musclemag?

When I created my own workouts with these exercises (obviously not on same day):

I added srength and size on paper but I was told to stick to the basics, at which point do you add the others and how do you know what to add?

E. Bodyweight exercises and SUSPENSION TRAINERS- when do you start working out with these?

F. Advanced training-mainly Mentzer/Yates High Intensity Training and/or HIT. What is Mark Rippetoes/most joint bodybuilder-strongmen's view on this? Has anyone gone from building a foundation on Rippeotoes/Stonglifts to using HIT or Isometrics?

G. How do you know you are progressing? Many-a-times I have come back and put progress pics up stating how I added pounds to my lifts, 1-1.5" on most bodyparts and how I have added pounds while keeping bodyfat at a constant/a little more-people say it appears I have not made progress.


Not sure if this is relevant or not but I love martial arts training-did kickboxing on-and-off since 2005 and have done 8 competitons-light continuos and pointfighting. Got to belt #5 out of 10 (blue) and just kinda gave up because I only won 3 pointfighting matches and 1 continuos and the fact I couldn't get over getting hit on the nose or ribs. I am doing Judo and Wrestling now at University for 2 hours a session,1 session a week per style (do 1 hour Ju Jitsu session a week when back home-have done <25 hours of Ju Jitsu before I started Judo/Wrestling last week).

We do a lot of conditioning in Wrestling-does that count as weight training since (in the lesson for over 30 mins of 2 hour sessions) we do: wrestlers' bridge,fireman carries,push ups (various variations),squats (various variations),picking up people from the ground and doing standing presses (upward and outward);rows and squats with Olympic plates.

In Kickboxing/Judo/Ju Jitsu we do push ups/sit ups/ squats/ various bodyweight exercises in the lesson at the start-would it affect the outcome of your gains if bodybuilding with weights too (the Judo/Jitsu and Kickboxing we generally do a set number when Sensei says OR we do static holds/variations in angles or tempo-generally only one set per exercise or as fast as possible or in a circuit/descending reps if there's more than one set)?????


fuck man, i just handed in my dissertation, didnt want to read another.
1) what are your goals - give no more than 2, defined and within a time limit
2) What strength level are you at now - squat/dead/bench/ohp/row/pullup


I think the specific number is irrelevant. How do you look (satisfied?) and how do you feel? If you have trouble going up stairs without panting, then yes, you probably need to shed some fat and improve your cardio.

Yes; there is no need to do those programs

Sure. There seems to be two different, but equally valid thoughts on training when dieting. Continue using the exact set/rep that you have been doing, realizing that you will probably have to use lighter weights. Or, doing something entirely different

now; never

When I created my own workouts with these exercises (obviously not on same day):

I added srength and size on paper but I was told to stick to the basics, at which point do you add the others and how do you know what to add?[/quote]

How do you add strength on paper? You either got stronger or you didn't. There are basic compound exercises that you should do, but that doesn't mean you avoid doing isolation exercises completely.

I never have except for warming up.

Adding reps/sets/weight is an indicator of progress.


Whoa, what happened to eating wholesome food and designing a bodypart split in the 4-8 rep range?

Pick some main exercises, add in some secondary exercises. Ramp the weights used.

Adjust your food portions in relation to your body comp...

That's all you need, when you get more advanced you can start making logical tweaks to your eating and training.


Do a push/pull/legs split.

6x a week.

3 Days on 1 Day off.

This gives you 4 days of rest between each day/phase of training.
As a beginner, you don't use heavy enough weight to warrant longer than 4 days of rest.
As a beginner, you don't use heavy enough weight to warrant a body part split.

Choose 2 basic money exercises per body part and 2 accessory exercises per body part.
E.g. Chest: Flat Bench, Incline Bench - DB Flyes, DB Decline Bench.

For a push day you need to hit your chest, deltoids and triceps. This totals 6 money exercises and 6 accessory exercises.

This is a lot of exercises.

Bench will probably utilize the triceps somewhat as well as the deltoids. So I recommend doing 1 money exercise and 1 accessory for each muscle other than the chest.


If you are bringing up deltoids give them the most exercise attention. Same for triceps.

Do 3-6 work sets for each money exercise.
Do 3 work sets for each accessory exercise.

Do 6-10 reps for each money exercise.
Do 8-12 reps for each accessory exercise.

Lift as above, Eat then repeat.


Sorry for the late reply guys. I will do Rippetoes because I asked the same question on Bodyspace and I know Rippetoes works even when you don't do it properly so if I do do it properly it should work better.

I am easily 18% bodyfat and am most likely over 20%. Can't do a chin up or dip and can do 20-30 push ups in kickboxing/wrestling class (when we have to do them quickly, I am lucky to get 20-more like 10 to 15!).
I have been kickboxing on-and-off since 2005 but since April I switched to wrestling and judo since I was not getting anywhere in kickboxing competition (couldn't get over getting hit in the ribs or on the nose!).Classes are 2 hours each and I do both classes on Sunday (morning for wrestling,evening for judo).

In wrestling class we do a lot of conditioning exercises e.g. fireman carries to squats, bodyslam lifts, explosive press ups (e.g. to his tempo),wrestler's bridges and flipping legs to side while staying in bridge; I have trouble staying in the bridge and can't lift my opponent up).We also mess about with weight plates near the end e.g. grabbing a 25/35lb Olympic Plate and doing Clean and Press, Standing Incline Press, Overhead Press, Rows, Squats and (not always) Trunk Twists,Steering Wheels and Tricep Extensions- all of these are for 10-20 reps and done quickly.

I will NOT be doing Wrestling while on Rippetoes-I want to build strength and size for it and look better overall. I will however, maintain my skills with Japanese Ju Jitsu (I am doing wrestling/judo at University and JJ at home where I will be doing Rippetoes). The Ju Jitsu will be my cardio (a one hour session a week) and I will also be walking back home from the gym (a mile-mile and a half walk).

I have 15 weeks to do this. I will HAVE TO change some things in Rippetoes:

A) No power cages/racks in the local gyms so Zercher squats will have to replace back Squats and dumbbell bench press has to replace barbell bench press-no spotter for bench press or squats
*is there anything better than Zerchers as an alternative to Back Squats? All I can think of are Barbell Hack Squats (too similar to Deadlifts) or the Sxxxh Machine (Rippetoes hates it so much I had to censor it).

B) Can not afford microplates for dumbbells (only using them for bench press) so am thinking of buying 2.5lb wrist weights when I am supposed to be adding 5lbs a week.
*how do I program dumbbells e.g. how heavy do I start on it (when does form breakdown/speed slow?)
*I have both gynecomastia and pseudogynecomastia-I have swelling and fat- will the flat benching make it worse and should I try incline instead (most people say stick to flat benching and clean up my diet-what's your opinion?)

C) Dropping barbell is a big no-no in the gym so will have to replace Power Clean with Pendlay Rows

So the edited version of Rippetoes will be:


3x5 Zercher Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift
(added week 3) 2x Dips (6-10) * will have to be on assisted dip machine
(1x week 1, 2x week 2, 3x week 3 onwards) Leg Raises (6-10)


3x5 Zercher Squat
3x5 Standing Overhead Press
3x5 Pendlay Rows
(added week 3) 2x Chins (6-10) *will have to be on assisted chin machine/lat pulldown
(1x week 1, 2x week 2, 3x week 3 onwards) Leg Raises (6-10)

and added to the last workout of the week in week 7:

2x 8-12 Dumbbell Tricep Extensions
2x 8-12 Barbell Bicep Curls