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What Program After 531 BBB?


#1

I am on my 3rd month of the challange,getting tough,I read were jim likes to no what he's doing a year in advanced,I'm wandering what I should do next or can I program this to keep going?this is the first program I have started and am going to finish in the last 2 years.


#2

[quote]Coopsdaddy wrote:
I am on my 3rd month of the challange,getting tough,I read were jim likes to no what he’s doing a year in advanced,I’m wandering what I should do next or can I program this to keep going?this is the first program I have started and am going to finish in the last 2 years.[/quote]

What’s your goal?

I ran BBB for a long while and then decided to work on my strength and push my numbers up so I did some cycles of 3/5/1 with Jokers, etc.

After reading both Jim’s books and following his comments here in regards to programming, I’ve settled into doing 6-week blocks in three stages:

  1. BBB - high volume, lower intensity
  2. FSL - medium volume, a bit more intensity and a lot of room for autoregulation based on how I feel, the lift, etc.
  3. 3/5/1 - low volume, high intensity, Jokers, new 1RMs, etc.

Using the 5 forward, 3 back method this does a nice job of ramping me up toward hitting new maxes and backing off again. If you do 5 ahead, 3 back, the second phase of 3/5/1 is at much lower TMs and this is where I really go for my Jokers and new 1 rep maxes. There’s enough work in the cycle to keep me moving and fresh leading up to the final week when I can easily put a bit more weight on the bar to do Jokers because my TM has been set back. Then the 6 weeks of BBB actually feel like a bit of a relief from the previous 6 weeks.

Something to try, perhaps.


#3

I am starting to struggle with getting the 5x10 sets but really enjoying it.I should be up to 170 by the time I’m done so gaining more muscle is my focus with a overall goal to hit 190 than look at my bf and see were I’m at.I would like to weigh around 185 12% bf and still be able to be pretty moble.I just ordered a prowler to help with the cardio.I am more interested in being and looking athletic than looking like a power lifter.
I use the black iron beast calculator and really like it.


#4

[quote]Boomka wrote:

[quote]Coopsdaddy wrote:

After reading both Jim’s books and following his comments here in regards to programming, I’ve settled into doing 6-week blocks in three stages:

  1. BBB - high volume, lower intensity
  2. FSL - medium volume, a bit more intensity and a lot of room for autoregulation based on how I feel, the lift, etc.
  3. 3/5/1 - low volume, high intensity, Jokers, new 1RMs, etc.

Using the 5 forward, 3 back method this does a nice job of ramping me up toward hitting new maxes and backing off again. If you do 5 ahead, 3 back, the second phase of 3/5/1 is at much lower TMs and this is where I really go for my Jokers and new 1 rep maxes. There’s enough work in the cycle to keep me moving and fresh leading up to the final week when I can easily put a bit more weight on the bar to do Jokers because my TM has been set back. Then the 6 weeks of BBB actually feel like a bit of a relief from the previous 6 weeks.

Something to try, perhaps.

[/quote]

That is a wonderful idea. I’ve just got into 531–only on my 5th cycle–and the numerous templates can be a bit bewildering. This combination seems to retain the basic principles whilst providing a breadth of interesting challenges. Thanks for posting this. Looks ideal.

Cheers,
Ray


#5

I wanted to ask a ? On a nagging injury I have,it’s nothing major butnj missed a squat a month ago and stumbled foward,it agervated a old lower back problem and hurt my right hip,I have been going to a sports chiro and he told me today that it’s not in a muscle around hip and might be in a disc,how can I keep going on this program and how will that change my decision on the next program.

I still feel like I can do everything but my hips not getting any better until the mid week when it has a few days rest,can I do more high rep squats an deads or will that screw up all my progress.


#6

Dude if it’s a disc then you need to make sure you don’t aggravate it. Probably a better solution is to find out what it is so you know what you’re dealing with going forward. IMO if the disc is aggravated right now, it’s completely stupid to load your spine with a bar on your back. Do stuff that will strengthen your hips, while letting it calm down. Then start training the squat again


#7

[quote]Boomka wrote:

[quote]Coopsdaddy wrote:
I am on my 3rd month of the challange,getting tough,I read were jim likes to no what he’s doing a year in advanced,I’m wandering what I should do next or can I program this to keep going?this is the first program I have started and am going to finish in the last 2 years.[/quote]

What’s your goal?

I ran BBB for a long while and then decided to work on my strength and push my numbers up so I did some cycles of 3/5/1 with Jokers, etc.

After reading both Jim’s books and following his comments here in regards to programming, I’ve settled into doing 6-week blocks in three stages:

  1. BBB - high volume, lower intensity
  2. FSL - medium volume, a bit more intensity and a lot of room for autoregulation based on how I feel, the lift, etc.
  3. 3/5/1 - low volume, high intensity, Jokers, new 1RMs, etc.

Using the 5 forward, 3 back method this does a nice job of ramping me up toward hitting new maxes and backing off again. If you do 5 ahead, 3 back, the second phase of 3/5/1 is at much lower TMs and this is where I really go for my Jokers and new 1 rep maxes. There’s enough work in the cycle to keep me moving and fresh leading up to the final week when I can easily put a bit more weight on the bar to do Jokers because my TM has been set back. Then the 6 weeks of BBB actually feel like a bit of a relief from the previous 6 weeks.

Something to try, perhaps.

[/quote]

Smart guy here.


#8

I have 531 but not beyond,were do I find fsl and 351 program layout?


#9

[quote]Boomka wrote:

[quote]Coopsdaddy wrote:
I am on my 3rd month of the challange,getting tough,I read were jim likes to no what he’s doing a year in advanced,I’m wandering what I should do next or can I program this to keep going?this is the first program I have started and am going to finish in the last 2 years.[/quote]

What’s your goal?

I ran BBB for a long while and then decided to work on my strength and push my numbers up so I did some cycles of 3/5/1 with Jokers, etc.

After reading both Jim’s books and following his comments here in regards to programming, I’ve settled into doing 6-week blocks in three stages:

  1. BBB - high volume, lower intensity
  2. FSL - medium volume, a bit more intensity and a lot of room for autoregulation based on how I feel, the lift, etc.
  3. 3/5/1 - low volume, high intensity, Jokers, new 1RMs, etc.

Using the 5 forward, 3 back method this does a nice job of ramping me up toward hitting new maxes and backing off again. If you do 5 ahead, 3 back, the second phase of 3/5/1 is at much lower TMs and this is where I really go for my Jokers and new 1 rep maxes. There’s enough work in the cycle to keep me moving and fresh leading up to the final week when I can easily put a bit more weight on the bar to do Jokers because my TM has been set back. Then the 6 weeks of BBB actually feel like a bit of a relief from the previous 6 weeks.

Something to try, perhaps.

[/quote] Do you do required reps or push last set for pr during all 3 stages?


#10

[quote]Shaun87 wrote: Do you do required reps or push last set for pr during all 3 stages?
[/quote]

I push for PRs through all stages on the 5/3/1 lifts. But, as I said above, the FSL template leaves a bit of room for autoregulation even with PRs. If I’m feeling like an animal, I’ll go for a PR on the FSL. Otherwise, I might just do 3x5 or 3x8 depending on the lift.

In general, being 40, I tend to be careful not to push too hard on PRs too often. Through most of the stages, if I can get one more rep than my previous PR at a certain weight, oftentimes I’m happy and I’ll leave it and live to fight another day. Where I tend to mix things up a bit is on the volume work. So when doing FSL, if I’m feeling spry I’ll go for a PR.


#11

[quote]Boomka wrote:

[quote]Shaun87 wrote: Do you do required reps or push last set for pr during all 3 stages?
[/quote]

I push for PRs through all stages on the 5/3/1 lifts. But, as I said above, the FSL template leaves a bit of room for autoregulation even with PRs. If I’m feeling like an animal, I’ll go for a PR on the FSL. Otherwise, I might just do 3x5 or 3x8 depending on the lift.

In general, being 40, I tend to be careful not to push too hard on PRs too often. Through most of the stages, if I can get one more rep than my previous PR at a certain weight, oftentimes I’m happy and I’ll leave it and live to fight another day. Where I tend to mix things up a bit is on the volume work. So when doing FSL, if I’m feeling spry I’ll go for a PR.

[/quote]

I like your approach very much.

Just a quick question: since you are using 3 “6 week blocks”, I understand that the second half of the 5/3/1+Jokers is stepping back using the “5 forward 3 back” method.

However, what I don’t get is how you move onto the next 3 stages. I’m asking because, if you follow the 5 forward 3 back, doing the 3 stages would mean that, for the next 4 cycles you should push your numbers and then go back again, but that would be during the first stage of the 5/3/1+Jokers instead of the second (because the last jokers cycle was the first of the “5 forward”).

How do you deal with that? Or do you just do the 3 back in the last stage of jokers and then push the cycles until you reach that stage again? (that would be like a 6 forward and 3 back).

Thanks a lot!


#12

Yeah, so far I’ve fudged that a bit (sorry Jim…) But I’ve always kind of understood the TM to be something you can adjust a bit as needs be and that the re-setting of the TM back 3 stages is about preventing peaking and building up a base at lower weights. What’s another 3-week cycle?

I just start my first BBB cycle without resetting my TM. Usually I’m pretty beat up after the 3/5/1 weeks with sore tendons and the like - even after the deload week - so I just ease back in to the first BBB weeks. I know it sounds odd to “ease in” to BBB but there’s still the opportunity to set rep PRs and to beat the crap out of myself with the volume work if I want. The first time around I bumped up the BBB percentage to 60.

I’ve thought about trying it the other way, so that I would re-set my TM at the beginning of the 6 weeks and just go ahead 5 and back 3 from there, but I haven’t done that, yet. And I’m in no rush.


#13

I was looking a the black iron beast site and like this off season for mass templet,it’s less confusing to me,canbi set it up to run longer than 4 weeks by just upping weight 5/10 lbs per month?i seem to stay a little more focused when i have a plan that’s 12 weeks,any shorter my mind seems to wander to much about the next program.Than maybe ill do the 3 month challange again ?


#14

Though I don’t think the details are all that important (I don’t see how 5/3 as any different than 6/3, or whatever)

But, in sticking with the 5/3 I’ve planned my next 5 cycles as half of the 28 week program (doing 1cycle each phase vs 2), which will take 4 cycles and then do 1 cycle of SVR as a “test” or “cumulation” cycle. Then after that final cycle I’ll drop 3, rinse & repeat.


#15

Man that sounds confusing !


#16

[quote]Coopsdaddy wrote:
Man that sounds confusing ![/quote]

Ha, I gets it re-reading it it does sound worse than it is. Of course that’s only one way to do it, it gets ME motivated. Figure out a low int/ high vol --> high int/low vol plan that makes YOU happy. And you don’t have to do everything for 2 cycles if you’d rather keep it to a 5 cycle progression. Or you could do 6/3 or something.

As long as your following the core ideas, moving through phases of volume to intensity and taking a few steps back to take more forward, the minutiae doesn’t really matter.


#17

I’m going to do the mass program above,I plan to replace bent over rows with another back exercise because they hurt my back and I do t have access to a ghr,what’s the best subs?
It’s a 4 week program and I would like to run it for 3 cycles than just do bbb 3 month again,it’s simple and I like that,do I just up my numbers 10lbs for lower and 5 for upper each cycle.Maybe throw in fsl or jokers when feeling it!


#18

Quick question: For anyone on Wendler 5 3 1 did you change your assistance work from workout to workout (i.e. Boring but big one day then maybe Triumvirate for another day, or Bodybuilder from Mens fitness another day) Or did you stick with the same program for the entire month/cycle?


#19

I stick to the same assistance program for - at least - an entire cycle before changing. How can you possibly expect to get a training effect if you’re constantly changing everything every session? You have to work on something long enough to see a progression. Otherwise you’re just spinning your wheels.

It’s not about what you did today, it’s about the cumulative effect of what you do today, tomorrow, the next day, next month, next year.


#20

This setup looks fun,for size gains does one look better than the other or lacking any exercise?