T Nation

What % of Americans Are Working?


Instead of the unemployment rate, what’s the employment percentage?

Thanks, government!

wow we put in a textbook head-and-shoulders top lol.

all the reduction in unemployment was this month was moving more people from “unemployed” to “not in the workforce.” This is a great chart that cuts some of that BS out.

think about coupling this chart with the decline in real wages. one breadwinner was all it took back in the day. now good luck supporting a family of 4.3 (mom, dad, 2.3 kids) with a stay at home mom.

[quote]milktruck wrote:
wow we put in a textbook head-and-shoulders top lol.

all the reduction in unemployment was this month was moving more people from “unemployed” to “not in the workforce.” This is a great chart that cuts some of that BS out.

think about coupling this chart with the decline in real wages. one breadwinner was all it took back in the day. now good luck supporting a family of 4.3 (mom, dad, 2.3 kids) with a stay at home mom.[/quote]

Yep. It appears to be basically the end of America as we knew it. And the stock market did the same thing just recently. I posted that chart a couple of weeks ago. This really is the beginning of a Great Depression, probably lasting at least 20 years.

As technology and globalization advances, we need less drones.

Do you want them to construct stone monuments for the heck of it?

It was common knowledge even in the nineties that 20% will provide the necessary economy boost, the rest can work shit jobs and be sedated through panem et circensis, porn & fox.

NPR said this AM that in the ranks of College educated that unemployement was %4 I would bet in the ranks of construction it is 33% maybe 50% NPR did not say where it got it’s info

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
As technology and globalization advances, we need less drones.

Do you want them to construct stone monuments for the heck of it?

It was common knowledge even in the nineties that 20% will provide the necessary economy boost, the rest can work shit jobs and be sedated through panem et circensis, porn & fox.[/quote]

Maybe I’m not reading your post correctly, but are you stating that advances in technology and globalization cause higher unemployment rates?

Because that is jawdroppingly incorrect.

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
As technology and globalization advances, we need less drones.

Do you want them to construct stone monuments for the heck of it?

It was common knowledge even in the nineties that 20% will provide the necessary economy boost, the rest can work shit jobs and be sedated through panem et circensis, porn & fox.[/quote]

Maybe I’m not reading your post correctly, but are you stating that advances in technology and globalization cause higher unemployment rates?

Because that is jawdroppingly incorrect.[/quote]

I think Globalization is exactly it , The free market will dilute the healthy markets until they are all equal

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
As technology and globalization advances, we need less drones.

Do you want them to construct stone monuments for the heck of it?

It was common knowledge even in the nineties that 20% will provide the necessary economy boost, the rest can work shit jobs and be sedated through panem et circensis, porn & fox.[/quote]

Maybe I’m not reading your post correctly, but are you stating that advances in technology and globalization cause higher unemployment rates?

Because that is jawdroppingly incorrect.[/quote]

I think Globalization is exactly it , The free market will dilute the healthy markets until they are all equal
[/quote]

Globalization lowers prices in the free market. Lower prices means consumers have more disposable income to spend on other items which increases demand for other items in the free market. Greater demand increases the # of workers needed for the markets that see increased demand as a result of the overall lower prices of goods due to globalization.

That’s why globalization raises the overall standard of living.

The only problem is that US labor is much more expensive than labor in many other countries due to minimum wage laws. So when companies need to hire more workers, they often use labor from other countries. Eliminate minimum wage laws - both unemployment and prices will go down.

Globalization is NOT the problem.

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
As technology and globalization advances, we need less drones.

Do you want them to construct stone monuments for the heck of it?

It was common knowledge even in the nineties that 20% will provide the necessary economy boost, the rest can work shit jobs and be sedated through panem et circensis, porn & fox.[/quote]

Maybe I’m not reading your post correctly, but are you stating that advances in technology and globalization cause higher unemployment rates?

Because that is jawdroppingly incorrect.[/quote]

Well, it’s not what I implied but rising unemployment certainly is correct to a degree.
On one hand, you can always find some work yourself and globalization and technological stuff certainly provides you with more opportunity.
The point, however, is that modern western societies aren’t really driven to provide and sustain basic labour jobs anymore.
If that’s your wish, then north korea would be a great country of endless opportunities for you (or perhaps cuba or venezuela).

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
As technology and globalization advances, we need less drones.

Do you want them to construct stone monuments for the heck of it?

It was common knowledge even in the nineties that 20% will provide the necessary economy boost, the rest can work shit jobs and be sedated through panem et circensis, porn & fox.[/quote]

Maybe I’m not reading your post correctly, but are you stating that advances in technology and globalization cause higher unemployment rates?

Because that is jawdroppingly incorrect.[/quote]

I think Globalization is exactly it , The free market will dilute the healthy markets until they are all equal
[/quote]

Globalization lowers prices in the free market. Lower prices means consumers have more disposable income to spend on other items which increases demand for other items in the free market. Greater demand increases the # of workers needed for the markets that see increased demand as a result of the overall lower prices of goods due to globalization.

That’s why globalization raises the overall standard of living.

The only problem is that US labor is much more expensive than labor in many other countries due to minimum wage laws. So when companies need to hire more workers, they often use labor from other countries. Eliminate minimum wage laws - both unemployment and prices will go down.

Globalization is NOT the problem.[/quote]

Globalization lowers the price for the consumer but also lowers the price of labor . That translates into disposable income that would go to more afluent countries going to third world countries where the purchasing power is so much greater,

I could go for eliminating the minimum wage , but would require that we do away with all imigration until unemployement is below 2 or 3 percent. Farm wages would exceed retail on the pay scale because the job is more valueable. The costs of your goods would go up . but so would wages

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
Globalization lowers prices in the free market. Lower prices means consumers have more disposable income to spend on other items which increases demand for other items in the free market. Greater demand increases the # of workers needed for the markets that see increased demand as a result of the overall lower prices of goods due to globalization.

That’s why globalization raises the overall standard of living.

The only problem is that US labor is much more expensive than labor in many other countries due to minimum wage laws. So when companies need to hire more workers, they often use labor from other countries. Eliminate minimum wage laws - both unemployment and prices will go down.
Globalization is NOT the problem.[/quote]

It’s not a problem, rather a syndrome.
We have to deal with it, one way or another. You just paraphrase corporate propaganda.
Look around, the western world experiences vast unemployment problems as well as a rising gap between poor and rich - no point denying that.

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
As technology and globalization advances, we need less drones.

Do you want them to construct stone monuments for the heck of it?

It was common knowledge even in the nineties that 20% will provide the necessary economy boost, the rest can work shit jobs and be sedated through panem et circensis, porn & fox.[/quote]

Maybe I’m not reading your post correctly, but are you stating that advances in technology and globalization cause higher unemployment rates?

Because that is jawdroppingly incorrect.[/quote]

I think Globalization is exactly it , The free market will dilute the healthy markets until they are all equal
[/quote]

Globalization lowers prices in the free market. Lower prices means consumers have more disposable income to spend on other items which increases demand for other items in the free market. Greater demand increases the # of workers needed for the markets that see increased demand as a result of the overall lower prices of goods due to globalization.

That’s why globalization raises the overall standard of living.

The only problem is that US labor is much more expensive than labor in many other countries due to minimum wage laws. So when companies need to hire more workers, they often use labor from other countries. Eliminate minimum wage laws - both unemployment and prices will go down.

Globalization is NOT the problem.[/quote]

Globalization lowers the price for the consumer but also lowers the price of labor . That translates into disposable income that would go to more afluent countries going to third world countries where the purchasing power is so much greater,

I could go for eliminating the minimum wage , but would require that we do away with all imigration until unemployement is below 2 or 3 percent. Farm wages would exceed retail on the pay scale because the job is more valueable. The costs of your goods would go up . but so would wages[/quote]

Farm Wages > Retail? Since when, Minimum Wage for a tomato picker is 3.75-4.25/hour.

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
As technology and globalization advances, we need less drones.

Do you want them to construct stone monuments for the heck of it?

It was common knowledge even in the nineties that 20% will provide the necessary economy boost, the rest can work shit jobs and be sedated through panem et circensis, porn & fox.[/quote]

Maybe I’m not reading your post correctly, but are you stating that advances in technology and globalization cause higher unemployment rates?

Because that is jawdroppingly incorrect.[/quote]

I think Globalization is exactly it , The free market will dilute the healthy markets until they are all equal
[/quote]

Globalization lowers prices in the free market. Lower prices means consumers have more disposable income to spend on other items which increases demand for other items in the free market. Greater demand increases the # of workers needed for the markets that see increased demand as a result of the overall lower prices of goods due to globalization.

That’s why globalization raises the overall standard of living.

The only problem is that US labor is much more expensive than labor in many other countries due to minimum wage laws. So when companies need to hire more workers, they often use labor from other countries. Eliminate minimum wage laws - both unemployment and prices will go down.

Globalization is NOT the problem.[/quote]

Globalization lowers the price for the consumer but also lowers the price of labor . That translates into disposable income that would go to more afluent countries going to third world countries where the purchasing power is so much greater,

I could go for eliminating the minimum wage , but would require that we do away with all imigration until unemployement is below 2 or 3 percent. Farm wages would exceed retail on the pay scale because the job is more valueable. The costs of your goods would go up . but so would wages[/quote]

Ridding ourselves of the minimum wage laws and stricter immigration laws are both phenomenal ideas.

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
As technology and globalization advances, we need less drones.

Do you want them to construct stone monuments for the heck of it?

It was common knowledge even in the nineties that 20% will provide the necessary economy boost, the rest can work shit jobs and be sedated through panem et circensis, porn & fox.[/quote]

Maybe I’m not reading your post correctly, but are you stating that advances in technology and globalization cause higher unemployment rates?

Because that is jawdroppingly incorrect.[/quote]

Well, it’s not what I implied but rising unemployment certainly is correct to a degree.
On one hand, you can always find some work yourself and globalization and technological stuff certainly provides you with more opportunity.
The point, however, is that modern western societies aren’t really driven to provide and sustain basic labour jobs anymore.
If that’s your wish, then north korea would be a great country of endless opportunities for you (or perhaps cuba or venezuela).
[/quote]

The USA is a capital rich country. More times than not companies choose to invest in capital assets over labor because labor is so damn expensive here. There is nothing wrong with that. If there are no basic labor jobs it’s because the cost of providing those jobs is greater than the benefit being provided by them. Again we arrive at minimum wage laws being the problem.

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
Globalization lowers prices in the free market. Lower prices means consumers have more disposable income to spend on other items which increases demand for other items in the free market. Greater demand increases the # of workers needed for the markets that see increased demand as a result of the overall lower prices of goods due to globalization.

That’s why globalization raises the overall standard of living.

The only problem is that US labor is much more expensive than labor in many other countries due to minimum wage laws. So when companies need to hire more workers, they often use labor from other countries. Eliminate minimum wage laws - both unemployment and prices will go down.
Globalization is NOT the problem.[/quote]

It’s not a problem, rather a syndrome.
We have to deal with it, one way or another. You just paraphrase corporate propaganda.
Look around, the western world experiences vast unemployment problems as well as a rising gap between poor and rich - no point denying that.
[/quote]

Ah, again with this “gap”. Sure, the gap between the rich and the poor (say the top 20% of earners and the bottom 20% of earners) is growing. HOWEVER, this does NOTHING to explain that people are moving in and out of both of these categories over time. The bottom 20% of earners today are NOT the same bottom 20% of earners 10 years from now. The same can be said for the top 20% of earners. So what does the gap matter?

For instance, the bottom 20% of earners historically includes many young people. The reason is obvious - without having any substantial work experience they don’t have the necessary skills to obtain higher paying jobs. However, over time they acquire these skills and move out of the bottom 20% into middle classity.

Mentioning the “gap” is totally misleading in that it makes people think that someone who is poor is just consistently getting more poor when this is not the case when we look at real INDIVIDUALS and FAMILIES instead of just a sub group of people.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
As technology and globalization advances, we need less drones.

Do you want them to construct stone monuments for the heck of it?

It was common knowledge even in the nineties that 20% will provide the necessary economy boost, the rest can work shit jobs and be sedated through panem et circensis, porn & fox.[/quote]

Maybe I’m not reading your post correctly, but are you stating that advances in technology and globalization cause higher unemployment rates?

Because that is jawdroppingly incorrect.[/quote]

I think Globalization is exactly it , The free market will dilute the healthy markets until they are all equal
[/quote]

Globalization lowers prices in the free market. Lower prices means consumers have more disposable income to spend on other items which increases demand for other items in the free market. Greater demand increases the # of workers needed for the markets that see increased demand as a result of the overall lower prices of goods due to globalization.

That’s why globalization raises the overall standard of living.

The only problem is that US labor is much more expensive than labor in many other countries due to minimum wage laws. So when companies need to hire more workers, they often use labor from other countries. Eliminate minimum wage laws - both unemployment and prices will go down.

Globalization is NOT the problem.[/quote]

Globalization lowers the price for the consumer but also lowers the price of labor . That translates into disposable income that would go to more afluent countries going to third world countries where the purchasing power is so much greater,

I could go for eliminating the minimum wage , but would require that we do away with all imigration until unemployement is below 2 or 3 percent. Farm wages would exceed retail on the pay scale because the job is more valueable. The costs of your goods would go up . but so would wages[/quote]

Farm Wages > Retail? Since when, Minimum Wage for a tomato picker is 3.75-4.25/hour. [/quote]

The problem is farm workers are paid below minimum wage because they hire ALOT of illegal migrants , they start to dilute the floor of a natural minimum wage before it even becomes legal . If they had to pay legal people to pick produce , they would become more automated and pay labor a livable wage if they expect to employ anyone.

Death Cross

Tomorrow, in confirmation of the Head-And-Shoulders that both the labor markets and the stock market made, the market will likely make what is called a ‘Death Cross’. This means that the 50 day moving average will go below the 200 day MA. The accuracy of a Death Cross is roughly 90%.

This means a fall of 30 or 40% is likely, with 90% confidence interval.

What this does to the rest of the economy I will leave to your imaginations.

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
As technology and globalization advances, we need less drones.

Do you want them to construct stone monuments for the heck of it?

It was common knowledge even in the nineties that 20% will provide the necessary economy boost, the rest can work shit jobs and be sedated through panem et circensis, porn & fox.[/quote]

Maybe I’m not reading your post correctly, but are you stating that advances in technology and globalization cause higher unemployment rates?

Because that is jawdroppingly incorrect.[/quote]

I think Globalization is exactly it , The free market will dilute the healthy markets until they are all equal
[/quote]

Globalization lowers prices in the free market. Lower prices means consumers have more disposable income to spend on other items which increases demand for other items in the free market. Greater demand increases the # of workers needed for the markets that see increased demand as a result of the overall lower prices of goods due to globalization.

That’s why globalization raises the overall standard of living.

The only problem is that US labor is much more expensive than labor in many other countries due to minimum wage laws. So when companies need to hire more workers, they often use labor from other countries. Eliminate minimum wage laws - both unemployment and prices will go down.

Globalization is NOT the problem.[/quote]

Globalization lowers the price for the consumer but also lowers the price of labor . That translates into disposable income that would go to more afluent countries going to third world countries where the purchasing power is so much greater,

I could go for eliminating the minimum wage , but would require that we do away with all imigration until unemployement is below 2 or 3 percent. Farm wages would exceed retail on the pay scale because the job is more valueable. The costs of your goods would go up . but so would wages[/quote]

Farm Wages > Retail? Since when, Minimum Wage for a tomato picker is 3.75-4.25/hour. [/quote]

The problem is farm workers are paid below minimum wage because they hire ALOT of illegal migrants , they start to dilute the floor of a natural minimum wage before it even becomes legal . If they had to pay legal people to pick produce , they would become more automated and pay labor a livable wage if they expect to employ anyone.[/quote]

Natural? If immigrants are willing to work for that wage, isn’t that the natural wage floor?

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
As technology and globalization advances, we need less drones.

Do you want them to construct stone monuments for the heck of it?

It was common knowledge even in the nineties that 20% will provide the necessary economy boost, the rest can work shit jobs and be sedated through panem et circensis, porn & fox.[/quote]

Maybe I’m not reading your post correctly, but are you stating that advances in technology and globalization cause higher unemployment rates?

Because that is jawdroppingly incorrect.[/quote]

I think Globalization is exactly it , The free market will dilute the healthy markets until they are all equal
[/quote]

Globalization lowers prices in the free market. Lower prices means consumers have more disposable income to spend on other items which increases demand for other items in the free market. Greater demand increases the # of workers needed for the markets that see increased demand as a result of the overall lower prices of goods due to globalization.

That’s why globalization raises the overall standard of living.

The only problem is that US labor is much more expensive than labor in many other countries due to minimum wage laws. So when companies need to hire more workers, they often use labor from other countries. Eliminate minimum wage laws - both unemployment and prices will go down.

Globalization is NOT the problem.[/quote]

Globalization lowers the price for the consumer but also lowers the price of labor . That translates into disposable income that would go to more afluent countries going to third world countries where the purchasing power is so much greater,

I could go for eliminating the minimum wage , but would require that we do away with all imigration until unemployement is below 2 or 3 percent. Farm wages would exceed retail on the pay scale because the job is more valueable. The costs of your goods would go up . but so would wages[/quote]

Farm Wages > Retail? Since when, Minimum Wage for a tomato picker is 3.75-4.25/hour. [/quote]

The problem is farm workers are paid below minimum wage because they hire ALOT of illegal migrants , they start to dilute the floor of a natural minimum wage before it even becomes legal . If they had to pay legal people to pick produce , they would become more automated and pay labor a livable wage if they expect to employ anyone.[/quote]

Natural? If immigrants are willing to work for that wage, isn’t that the natural wage floor? [/quote]
in their country

this is the path to a one world economy

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
this is the path to a one world economy [/quote]

So economies stop at imaginary lines drawn up on maps?

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[
Ah, again with this “gap”. Sure, the gap between the rich and the poor (say the top 20% of earners and the bottom 20% of earners) is growing. HOWEVER, this does NOTHING to explain that people are moving in and out of both of these categories over time. The bottom 20% of earners today are NOT the same bottom 20% of earners 10 years from now. The same can be said for the top 20% of earners. So what does the gap matter?

For instance, the bottom 20% of earners historically includes many young people. The reason is obvious - without having any substantial work experience they don’t have the necessary skills to obtain higher paying jobs. However, over time they acquire these skills and move out of the bottom 20% into middle classity.

Mentioning the “gap” is totally misleading in that it makes people think that someone who is poor is just consistently getting more poor when this is not the case when we look at real INDIVIDUALS and FAMILIES instead of just a sub group of people.[/quote]

This isn’t an answer. Not everyone moves in and out. And not everyone that moves out of the poor/lower class forgets what it was like. Nor, do they imagine it impossible that a crises or two just might throw them back down into misery. And if that gap continues to grow, even if just a bit more, limited government ideas will no longer even get a hearing.

Republicans and Libertarians had better provide a plan to actually deal with the issue. Paying low wages and buying cheaper goods sounds great on paper, but when the masses can plainly see increasing stratification…well, we might just end up with Democratic Socialism becoming a respectable ideology in this country.