T Nation

What may be in the new MD6???

What does everyone think Biotest will replace the ephedra with?? I hope it isnt synephdrine (I hope I spelled it right). I remember Dan Duchain saying that was worthless?? Will the new MD6 but as good as the old MD6 (2nd version)? I have a feeling it will be green tea and that synephdrine.

Id bump for this one as well.

I say it won’t be as big a deal as everyone is making it when ephedra is taken off the market. There are many other substances and compounds that have fat burning capabilities and when taken in stacks they can be quite effective. For starters products like tyrosine, korean ginseng, green tea extract, gugul, forskolin, and maca are some current products that have effectiveness. I also seem to recall there being some herbs that convert into ephedra. Country mallow or some type of “mallow” was one mentioned in Bill Phillips old sports supplement review.

I would imagine if you read over some of Doug Kalmans “bloodhound scientist” articles and pay special attention when he becomes rather coy you’ll have an idea.

My guess would be sida cordifolia or country mallow as a replacement. I am from NE where ephedra was banned for a good six years, and this is what was most popular as an alternative…it’s in products such as Shape and Thermbuterol. It’s considered to be a “cousin plant” to ephedra. Not pure, but it supposedly converts to ephedra when it gets in your system. Feedback has been quite positive on it so I wouldn’t get too worked up about the whole issue.

Bodyguard, are you refering to azaftig in the “Alternative Pharmacist” issue 196. Interestingly enough, azaftig was recently shown to induce lipolysis in human cells as well as rat cells (Biochem Biophys Res Commun 2002 May 3;293(2):847-9). Doug, do you have any other new information on this compound?

I’ve used products with sida cordifolia and country mallow and they suck. That’s why none of the top rated fat burners use them…ephedra is the best bar none. None of the products mentioned can compare to ephedra. None have a CNS effect like ephedra. Many use ephedra not only as a fat burner but probably a more common use is as an WO intensity and energy enhancer. None of the products mentioned will do that like ephedra.

Maybe for now the ephedra replacement products suck…at least in feeling compared to ephedra, but keep in mind they’re usually made and promoted to people who don’t tolerate or don’t like the effects of ephedra. With a little tweaking in dosages and such I’m sure we could have ephedra free products that feel and give the same results as ephedra. Time will tell.

I was actually being quite general as I recall Doug citing quite a few different compounds over the past issues that may be interesting. Both his bloodhound sci and alternative pharm series have given hint towards these (or at least so I recall).

Hi all. As far as azaftig, it can be sold as a DS, it can be synthesized, it is a metabolite and meets DHSEA requirements. However, in order to sell it commercially the FDA requires a ton of safety data since it was not sold prior to 1994 (New dietary ingredient laws). A more recent publication by the LSU lab working on azaftig demonstrated that as little as 6 mcg increased lipolysis by 167% in adipocytes. There next study from what I understand in is OB/OB mice (genetically obese mice). After that Phase I human studies can be done. A supplement company can pick up the ball… There are other ingredients that I have stated in various columns here and in Muscular Development, however some may be one the way to you & I by companies such as Biotest or by Big Pharma. I do not look at these as ephedra replacements, but rather other agents that can help slash body fat. If you read the 6 or so Alt Pharma columns that I have written you will be able to tease these out. More goodies to come shortly.

Yeah I use ephedra solely for energy purposes as I don’t have that much fat on me. I play ice hockey and I use it before games, really gives me a lot of energy. I don’t even use MD6 and it is pissing me off, those bastards.

Of course it was in an LSU lab. Hehe…doesn’t take much to find out where my loyalties lie.

Doug, what do you think about octapamine as a beta-3 adrenergic agonist? I noticed that Syntrax is now marketing it under the name “Beta-3”. The studies I have looked at shows that it does activate the beta-3 receptor and induce lipolysis; however, only in certain animal fat cells, but not human fat cells. Do they know if azaftig binds to adrenergic receptors to induce lipolysis? I noticed in the study I mentioned that azaftig worked better in human cells than rat cells at inducing lipolysis.

I am not a fan of Octopamine, data from Carpene’s lab show no efficacy in human LT31 cell lines (adipocytes), thus in theory since the animal data was nice, who knows. Further, from what I hear the product is in violation of patents held by Dennis Jones, perhaps legal action pending. As far as azaftig mechanism of action to my knowledge it has not been elucidated as of yet.