What is TRT and What is NOT TRT

He got banned

I always noticed that his advice was misguided (I’m being nice), but I never noticed him doing anything to get banned. Huh.

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Vonko

Got yah. Yah he sure was

We all tried to be nice to him for so long :joy:. It was a futile attempt.

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I’ve seen that argument used over and over and over and over on several forums, Facebook groups and YouTube videos… you bringing up the real reason is the first time I had ever heard of it not being an issue with a decimal being off one place

Hi @readalot. Can you please post a short summary on how to use this TSH titrating approach in practice?

They have decreased though.

Heres UK medichecks reference ranges - notice the difference in SHBG and T ranges.

Especially at the bottom end of T and upper SHBG.

Basically you could have a Free T level way lower now if you were upper end SHBG and lower end T with those changes combined than back then.

Interestingly the NHS SHBG range goes up to 94!!! I had SHBG in the 70s and my GP said it was in range. I felt like crap despite “normal” testosterone levels

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I looked hard a year or so back and couldn’t find anything to substantiate a significant generational decline in T levels. There was evidence of modest decline but certainly no 1500 ng/dl levels for average joes walking around.

I reckon the top ofnthat reference range isn’t to be sniffed at.

Not far off a 15% drop in top end healthy levels!

The FSH reference range puzzles me… whats happened there?

Still… you very, very rarely see a ref range that goes up to 36 nowadays. I’ve seen ref ranges cut off below 20nmol/l

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There actually is a moderate body of evidence suggestive of generational decline. It isn’t particularly significant (i.e 1500ng/dl to 500ng/dl) it’s closer to 650ng/dl - 450/500ng/dl.

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We are basically saying the same thing.

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Anyone able to answer my question about the change in FSH ref range?

That’s more than “up there”, that’s suspicious as hell… Even women with PCOS have a TT below 150ng/dl, above 200ng/dl is indicative of a tumour or something. A woman with a TT of almost 1000ng/dl tis probably doping.

A TT of 40 1154ng/dl within a man is possible, but such a number is rare, esp for an elite athlete wherein overtraining prior to competition may adversely alter endocrine parameters. I’d argue many can get away with using testosterone in competitive sports as the standardised test to look at testosterone/epitestosterone ratio, if you fail a carbon isotope ratio test is typically conducted, but the test is expensive to perform. There is a genetic mutation (I’d have to look it up again) regarding this ratio that could theoretically allow a subset of athletes to seriously abuse testosterone (like 400mg/wk) and not get popped.

The cutoff criteria for T/ET rato is 4:1, very few have such a ratio naturally. One study I’ve looked at indicates a fair portion of me can use a decent amount of testosterone (enough to statistically enhance performance) without getting popped.

I happen to personally know one individual who competed in the Olympics within a predominantly anaerobic sport. If you look at pictures of him before/after his competitive days he goes into professional athletics as a relatively skinny guy with a full head of hair, comes out looking like a brick shithouse with no hair. Might have been natty… but I’ll suspend my disbelief

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Is that the one where guys took 300mg of TE and several still managed to be under the 4:1 ratio?

I haven’t seen that one. The study I refer to was using a set dose calculated by bodyweight.

Back onto the topic of doping… Poor women, the virilization incurred through raising your TT to 40nmol must be enormous.

You’re practically giving yourself a sex change at that point

There was a thread I read somewhere about a medical practitioner giving a woman 100mg test C/wk to put on weight/muscle mass following (either an eating disorder or chronic Illness)…

Like for God’s sake man, if you’re going to use an anabolic agent in a woman opt for nandrolone (if c17-aa aren’t available or tolerated).

Other superior alternatives for woman (depending on country of residence)

Tibolone
Stanozolol
Oxandrolone
Etc etc…

Another study I looked at compared the pharmacokinetics of testosterone gel in woman vs men. Equivalent dosages for whatever reason lead to a lesser peak/nadir in women comparative to men. Most women noted virilization, making me wonder how said study passed the ethics committee… Like what did you think would happen if you were to administer women 5-10mg testosterone/day. Relative to their baseline production that’s a big increase.

It increased muscle mass and strength, but also led to hirsutism, acne, facial hair growth etc… Shocker…

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As I’ve said repeatedly, TRT is medication, nothing more. It is not meant for some bodybuilding endeavor. It is meant to restore normal function, period.