T Nation

What is the Deep State Goal?

Trump and Deep State
I am trying to understand.

There is a growing sentiment that COVID-19 is a Deep State plot; created by the Chinese government; in order to hurt Trump’s reelection chances.

Is that the Goal? To defeat TRUMP?

So you purposely release a deadly virus in order to prevent the election of one useless man; and will destroy an economy to do so?

While I would concede that this would a brilliant form of biological warfare to bring a Country economically to it’s knees; it’s beyond all reason to me that one is burning down the whole neighborhood because they saw a rat come from one of the homes.

If somehow history proves this all to be true; I will regret having not listened more to Hannity and others; and this Great Republic doesn’t deserve to even exist.

Thoughts?

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2 other (serious) questions:

  1. How is a huge, Federal Bureaucracy; spread out over 50 states and throughout the World; able to coordinate it’s activities?

  2. How is Trump able to oust such powerful and Omnipotent officials almost on a whim? The man can express his displeasure at a person in a Tweet one day, and they are gone the next.

And the “Deep State” is the powerful entity???

I think a big problem in society is that many people do not really care if what they think or believe is true. Maybe many say they care, but their actions do not support that claim.

There exists ZERO evidence of this COVID-19 Deep State plot, but people choose to believe it, and reject things that actually have good reasons (evidence) to believe in.

I fear the results of what happens when many in society are incapable or unwilling to think rationally. This is not a new thing, but I am starting to think there is evidence of it growing. Things like distrust in science (and scientists), anti-vax movement, flat Earthers, deep state believers. There isn’t evidence to support those things. Maybe I am just more aware of it with the growing information network?

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Is it difficult to believe that man has always subjugated other men (or at least schemed to do so)?

History shows every political system whether ‘representative govt’, monarchy by whatever title, even religion - has sought to consolidate power at the top.

Computers and mass communication make this increasingly easier. That is why any thinking person should realize that there will one day be a world ruler and he will control the common form of exchange men uses - currency in some form.

Scoff if you want (not directed personally). Drones on tv last night taking vitals of 1/2 dozen men in a park from 100’ away for use as health precaution aid.

Covid who knows? You kill 100mm in an overcrowded country while beta testing bio/econ weapon - no prob.

Okay, @treco:

Trump has been exhibiting more of those characteristics that anyone he has ousted, almost on a whim.

And I am not “scoffing”…I am trying to understand.

(P.S. My bad. You said not directed at me personally).

I can’t even keep up with what the deep state is supposed to be now. At first I thought it was supposedly some old members of government who wanted Hilary. We can’t trust any intelligence. But when we killed a alleged terrorist the administration pointed to intelligence about him without hesitation.

Seems like if intelligence is praising the administration or pointing in agreement with its goals it’s fine. If it isn’t it’s all the deep state working against them. Whatever the deep state is at the moment.

Now I’m reading Dr Faucci is part of it of course. No one thought that until he disagreed with something Trump said. Now of course he’s one.

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I don’t think Trump is deep state, but definitely shows all of the same traits of the deep state. A latent desire to control and hold all of the power. China really doesn’t fall into the existing deep state, but desires their own version of it.

To what ends in the thought of us mere mortals? Don’t know.
You and I are not megalomaniacs that believe everyone else is chattel, but there are many who desire to be in complete control - Kings, Communist rulers, cult leaders, Cecil Rhodes, Dons…

Some are just more secretive and control things in the dark, with a light catching a glimpse every so often - Goldman Sachs extraordinary influence in US $ system, 2 unknown geeks that founded a search engine that follows your every move on the webz, financier of anarchy oro.

These people make stuff happen that you and I know zero about. Stuff that we don’t know that we don’t know, as the old saw goes. Until it is just accepted as normal life.

For this thread, wouldn’t we have to have some evidence of a deep state to really make talking about their goals worth while? We can talk about what people think this organization is, why they are silly for believing something without evidence, and ultimately what they think the deep state goals are.

This is kinda like talking about what goals does Big Foot have.

Not for many people, @mnben87

And there are some smart, intelligent people out there who relentlessly push the narrative.

If something involves large segments of the population/electorate; then I believe it warrants discussion.

The goal of every branch of the civil service that has existed for long enough is to preserve its own existence.

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So they conspire with the Chinese government to 1) destroy our economy and 2) oust Trump…in order to preserve an existence that wasn’t threatened?

Oh, I am alleging nothing of the sort. The “deep state” as I understand it, is an acknowledgment that branches of government will eventually come to behave as if their role is to ensure that their job continues and their departments grow.

Are there specific instances of these bodies acting contrary to policy to do so? Litanies.

That’s all I am saying and nothing more.

The paranoia of people around things like the FBI etc don’t convince me in the slightest.

I don’t disagree, but I think there’s a difference in the bureaucracy and the so-called Deep State. The Deep State opponents throw the baby out with the bathwater - if you’re a qualified expert in a field and work for the government, you’re not just self-interested, you’re the enemy trying to destroy the lives of ordinary Americans.

This war on expertise isn’t justified, even for those frustrated by the bureaucracy.

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“If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.”

The goal is power and control. Always has been, always will be. The USA is/was the outlier that must be destroyed for Orwell’s prediction to come true.

Perhaps, and I don’t disagree with your additional points either. I would say that I am uncomfortable with rule by experts. The role of a decision maker should include things beyond one realm of expertise.

I think the heads of these bodies should be generalists who are open to listening to experts. But an expert will be focused on his area of expertise, perhaps to the detriment of other considerations.

I’m not saying that has happened here either. But I’m sure we’ve both encountered experts whose proximity to their field can make them uninterested in other factors.

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To take an example from my own working life. We had an interdepartmental meeting regarding the onboarding of a very large client.

The traders were concerned about facilitating the trades, the AML department was concerned about the money laundering risks, legal was worried about the contracts, and the relationship manager was worried about keeping the client happy.

All valid concerns, but each department was convinced that their own concern was most pressing.

WHEW! Thanks!

I was almost going to write, "Et TU, @Legalsteel?)

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Happy to clarify!

Sure because the FBI, NSA, CIA or British equivalents could never become Stasi, KGB, or SSD of N Korea.

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My question is not about some future U.S. Police State…but how, and why as it relates to the current Pandemic…the coordination and cooperation with the Chinese to Government to destroy the U.S. Economy…thereby lessening (not even preventing) the chances that someone like Trump is denied 4 more years in office?

The leaps in even small bits of logic are simply staggering.