What Is Really "Specific" To Building Mass?

Appreciate the different perspective.

OP, @flipcollar is very strong, and has a great build, so his opinion is worthy of strong consideration.

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I was using 8 kg for Upright rows and 10 kg for presses. Guess I will just man up and use 10 for both next time

Thank you man, I needed someone to tell me this. I caught myself cutting sets short either because I give in to pain in very high rep sets or because I legitimately think I am done, whereas I really have a couple more reps left. I will pay attention to that from now on.

Hi and thank you for chiming in.

I do realize what we are talking about here does not belong to “basic” or what many refer to as “the 20% that gets 80% of the results,” but I believe that as long as I’m putting all the effort in the gym and training consistently, well it doesn’t hurt to come here and discuss the minutiae (as you said, I enjoy this kind of discussion and when I have the opportunity I would like to start studying to eventually become a trainer).

What I actually found is that, if in a set I’m not feeling rows in the back, backing off a couple of kgs helps me focus more.

What you say about recruiting larger muscles with heavier weight does make sense to me, but for example if I’m using weights that are too heavy on Cable rows I have difficulties retracting the scapulae properly whereas the pulling motion of the elbows is just fine. Thoughts?

@EyeDentist
As the week went on, I decided that it might be wise to have my form reviewed for a couple more exercises.

Yesterday it was chest and arms, and I was doing Incline db presses. During the first set I felt an intense burning and aching in my upper pec, which made me feel like I was working the muscle properly. A couple of sets later tho, I started to lose this strong connection with my pecs.

Here’s my third set. I thought it might have something to do with the fact that I’m going almost all the way to lockout, maybe it’d help if I stopped earlier.

Thoughts?

I little tip I learned on DB incline and back work. If I barely grip it just tight enough to keep it in my hands it really takes my arms out of the equation and I feel it a lot more in my chest or back depending on the exercise. Plus smith machine incline bench is really good for feeling the pecs work

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To my eye, your ROM is a touch too long. The last few inches of ‘push’ appear to be accomplished via scapular protraction, which is not wanted. Watch the video, paying close attention to your upper pecs, and you’ll see what I mean. Specifically, at the top of the movement, you can see all the tension suddenly leave your upper pecs. Not good. When you perform this exercise, stop just short of this position, so the upper pecs remain engaged throughout.

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hi guys, just wanted you to know that i’ve been working on implementing the advice i got so far in this thread into my training.

saturday will end my sixth week of the phat routine i’m currently doing, and i’m working on making a small “review” of the program and how it’s been working for me.

it will include videos of the main exercises so you guys can give me some advice on form if it’s needed, together with my thoughts about the program and what could be improved.

i will be looking forward to hearing your guys’ opinion, so stay tuned!

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I know I’m really late to the party, but I agree with just about everything that’s been said.

Also, this. ^

A lot of beginner powerlifters and bodybuilders (I myself am barely out of this phase) will assume that to be the best powerlifter (or bodybuilder) they can be, they should ONLY work with sets of 2, 3, or 5. A lot of beginner bodybuilders think that if they aren’t doing 10x10 with .4 seconds of rest between sets, then they won’t grow bigger. In reality, both mindsets are wrong. I like to see the mental intensity of a new powerlifter who wants to max out every time they’re in the gym. It shows that they really want to get better, but it’s the wrong way to go about it.

In my opinion, bodybuilders and powerlifters should have the same phases in a macrocycle, and most good bodybuilders and powerlifters do, which is why this is my opinion (lol).

If nothing else, switching from hypertrophy to strength and power will give you a psychological rest. Going from trying to eek out as many reps as possible with 80-90% of your max to throwing 60-70% of your max around like it’s nothing is a really good feeling.

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so here it is:

it’s been 6 weeks since i started the PHAT program.
i’m going to put here a week-1-vs-week-6 log:

WEEK 1 DAY ONE
Pendlay row
125 lbs / 57 kg x 5
125 lbs / 57 kg x 5
136 lbs / 62 kg x 5

Pullup
bw x 7, 5
Rack chins
bw x 10

Flat db press
53 lbs / 24 kg x 5
53 lbs / 24 kg x 5
53 lbs / 24 kg x 7

Db ohp
35 lbs / 16 kg x 10
35 lbs / 16 kg x 10

Ez bb curl
44 lbs / 20 kg
55 lbs / 25 kg
55 lbs / 25 kg
x10

Curved bar pushdown
110 lbs / 50 kg x 6
99 lbs / 45 kg x8

WEEK 1 DAY 2
Pendlay row speed work @ 70% of day 1
92 lbs / 42 kg x 6 sets of 3

Rack chins
bw x 12
x12
x9

Seated cable row
99 lbs / 45 kg x 9
x9
x8

Db row
44 lbs / 20 kg x 12
39 lbs / 18 kg x 11

Close grip UH lat pulldown
77 lbs / 35 kg x 20
x16

Seated DB OHP
35 lbs / 16 kg x 12
39 lbs / 18 kg x 10
39 lbs / 18 kg x9

Wide grip bb upright row
66 lbs / 30 kg x 2 x 12

Side raise
17 lbs / 8 kg x 16
17 lbs / 8 kg x 15
13 lbs / 6 kg x 20

WEEK 1 DAY 3

Some leg presses, leg curls, and calf raises

WEEK 1 DAY 4

Flat db press speed work @ 70%
39 lbs / 18 kg x 6 x 3

Incline db press
53 lbs / 24 kg x 8, 9, 8

Chest press machine
99 lbs / 45 kg x 12
110 lbs / 45 kg x 12

Cable fly
33 lbs / 15 kg x 10
22 lbs / 10 kg x 20

EZ bb curl
55 lbs / 25 kg x 12, 10, 10

Concentration curl
17 lbs / 8 kg x 12
15 lbs / 7 kg x 13

Incline db curl
8 lbs / 4 kg x 20
13 lbs / 6 kg x 16

Db overhead extention
39 lbs / 18 kg x 12
44 lbs / 20 kg x 6

Rope pushdown
44 lbs / 20 kg x 2 x 20

WEEK 6 DAY 1
Pendlay row
142 lbs / 64.5 kg x 3 x 5

Rack chins
+11 lbs / 5 kg x 12, 10, 7

Behind the back smith machine upright row
66 lbs / 30 kg x 16
88 lbs / 40 kg x 12, 11

Flat db press
66 lbs / 30 kg x 4, 6 ,7

Incline db press
57 lbs / 26 kg x 9, 5

DB ohp
39 lbs / 18 kg x 9, 7
35 lbs / 16 kg 10

3 Sets of curls and pushdowns

WEEK 6 DAY 2
4 rounds of:

Reverse cable fly, db side raise, db upright row, seated db ohp
x10-20

Pendlay row speed work @ 70%
103 lbs / 47 kg x 6 x 3

Front lat pulldown
110 lbs / 50 kg x 13
121 lbs / 55 x 8
110 lbs / 50 kg x 9
99 lbs / 45 kg x 13

Seated cable row
121 lbs / 55 kg x 14
132 lbs / 60 kg x 11, 10
121 lbs / 55 kg x 11

Rowing torso machine (similar to reverse pec deck)
22 lbs / 10 kg x 30
33 lbs / 15 kg x 17, 15

WEEK 6 DAY 3

Did some deadlifts: worked up to a set of 3 with 246 lbs / 112 kg after about 6 months of doing no deadlifts at all so i was pretty happy.

WEEK 6 DAY 4
BP speed work @ 70%
44 lbs / 20 kg x 6 x 3

Incline db press
61 lbs / 28 kg x 2 x 8
57 lbs / 26 kg x 10, 5

Low to high cable fly
22 lbs / 10 kg x 17
33 lbs / 15 kg x 3 x 15

Preacher curl
55 lbs / 25 kg x 8
44 lbs / 20 kg x 13, 10

Incline db curl
13 lbs / 6 kg x 15, 12
8 lbs / 5 kg x 20, 22

Rope pushdown
66 lbs / 30 kg x 15, 10
55 lbs / 25 x 12

Overhead cable extension
44 lbs / 20 kg x 14
33 lbs / 15 x 14, 16

And that’s all for the log. i’m running out of the door at the moment but i will be posting in detail about what i found good in this program vs that in my opinion i should change from now on, together with some thoughts on specific exercise and a plan i’ve come up with so you guys can tell me what you think about all of that.

thoughts on the program

So I gotta say that I’ve enjoyed each and every week so far, I’m loving this program.
I am unsure about those speed work sets tho. I don’t feel the right muscles when doing those and I found that doing reps too fast isn’t that good for my form. I’m thinking about dropping those and substituting them with more “traditional” sets.

Here’s a new program that I’ve come up with, based on what has been suggested here and using the “old” PHAT as a model.

The split looks the same as the other one, so it’s
Upper power
Rest
Shoulders and back
Legs
Chest bis tris
Rest
Rest

Day 1
Low Incline db press 3x3-5
Db ohp 3x6-8
Smith machine flat press 2x6-8
T bar row 3x3-5
Smith machine behind the back Upright row 3x6-8
Lat pulldown 3x6-10
Curl 3x6-10
Pushdown 3x6-10

Day 2
Db side raises 4x10-12
Db ohp 3x6-10
Db Upright row superset with reverse cable fly 4x10-15
Cable lateral raise 3x15-20
Cable row 4x6-10
Underhand lat pulldown 3x8-12
Low row machine 3x8-12

Day 3
I will be messing around as I’ve been doing, so some heavy squats and Deadlifts with maybe leg curls and some ab work here and there

Day 4
Low Incline db press 4x6-10
Smith machine flat press 3x6-10
Low to high cable fly 4x12-15
Preacher curl 4x12-15
Hammer curl 4x12-15
Incline curl 3x15-20
Rope pushdown 4x12-15
Overhead cable extension 4x12-15
Cable kickback 3x15-20

So after reading volume training landmarks on reinassance periodization, I tried to stick to the recommended values with this program.

All of this amounts to 19 sets for chests a week, 16 for back, 18 for rear/side delts, 6 for the front delts, and 14 for bis and tris.

I realized this may be a lot of volume so I’m thinking about maybe working up to it starting with lower volume for the first two weeks.

I figured that some muscles are still on the low end of the recommended volume, like back (also bis, since I read that 14 is the minimum recommended number of direct sets). I’m still a little confused as to if the guidelines I read are geared towards natural trainees or enhanced ones.

The program doesn’t look bad to me and I think I chose exercises that are specific to my goals.

I’m unsure about what to do at the moment though. I’m on week 6 but I feel like I can go for one or maybe two weeks and still improve weights before needing a deload. I still feel very strong and not fatigued, although workouts are starting to become more difficult toward the last sets. What should I do?

@EyeDentist

What do you guys think?

Go another week or two, then deload.

@EyeDentist Got it, thanks.

Thought about my progress and the program I posted?

My thought is, you obviously feel pretty good about the program–you’re enjoying it, don’t feel worn out, are making progress, and are champing at the bit to do more work. That’s enough to tell me the program is working for you.

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Didn’t feel like opening a new topic just to ask this, so I’ll ask here.

This week I’ve noticed that I’m having difficulties pacing myself during the workout breath-wise.

I noticed when I’m doing higher rep sets, especially with short rest intervals in between sets, that my heart rate hardly slows down and I have to catch my breath.

It’s starting to become a problem because the neck of bottle of some of my high rep sets now seems to be cardiovascular failure rather than muscle failure.

What would you suggest I do to help try and fix the situation so my cardiovascular fitness isn’t lagging behind?

Will some LISS cardio do the trick? I just want to increase my aerobic capacity as necessary to avoid holding back my gains, but I’m reluctant to the idea of doing cardio because, although I can endure a good deal of muscle pain, I am not so strong when it comes to coping with the hell you experience during hypoxia when you feel like the oxygen you are breathing isn’t enough to keep you from fainting.

I also feel that at 17 it’s not good to be in such poor condition, aerobic wise. I don’t even smoke!

Learn to breath properly e.g. remembering to breath during sets/between reps before trying anything else.

Normal to get somewhat gassed during high rep + intensity sets but to be limited by that is a bit worrying. If you don’t rest long and superset everything its gonna happen. Do you have to train in this style?

If you been skimping on cardio so far so cardiovascular training will help you out. Google “cardio stronger by science”.

You don’t need to hit a super high intensity on cardio to get a training effect and carryover. If you are getting fucked in the butt by your cardio its probably too intense at least at your level. A relatively chill 100rpm on the stationary bike with a nice tv show on is plenty effective. Gradually increase time from 10mins to however long your movies go for.

When I wrestled (elementary-high school) we would do circuit training with the same effect as our pre-season conditioning.

Some LISS or HIIT probably wouldn’t hurt. In fact, we used to do HIIT for about 10 minutes before hitting the weight room, with the time it took to get from the pool balcony to the weight room being the only break in the session.

A lot of kids would puke and stuff for the first few sessions but that would clear up in like a week. Everybody was in pretty good shape.

Hey, it’s been a while since I updated this topic.

So here’s a video of me doing a double rest pause set of cd le rows with 165 lbs, which is now the heaviest weight I’ve used on this exercise.

I’m not much of a show off at the gym, but my buddy insisted I took off my shirt, so I guess that video serves as a physique update as well.

Here’s also a video of me overhead pressing 52 pounders 24 kg db ohp - YouTube

Any advice on form is welcomed.

I’m getting stronger and somewhat bigger as well so I guess I’m doing good.

I introduced some high intensity techniques such as dropsets and rest pause sets in my training and I’m planning to do this for this week and the next, which will be the last before a little deload (I won’t be able to train consistently during holidays because the gym is closed on Christmas and I don’t physically be in town during December 31st and January 1st), so I’m making these sessions extra hard to earn that deload.

I’m unsure of what I want to do when I come back from holidays. I’ve been bulking for quite a while and I upped my cals to 2.9k a day and I noticed I’m getting softer. I’m thinking about doing a mini cut during the first part of January, maybe 3 weeks, to have a break from bulking and do some good to my insulin sensitivity.

I would love to hear some advice as per how to go about it tho.
I once read an article, here on T nation, about the 5/2 diet which basically consisted of 5 says of normal eating with 2 non-training, non-consecutive days when you basically only eat two very small meals (they might’ve been like 400 cals each but I can’t tell for sure). It sounded like a fast and effective approach to me, thoughts?

@EyeDentist

Dont do anything you’re not comfortable with, and tell him no means no. If he continues, blow your rape whistle

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Did he say nohomo afterwards?

Anyone willing to actually comment on what I said about my training?