What Is Really "Specific" To Building Mass?

Brian Shaw and some nobody (from the looks of him, he’s probably a natty Classic Physique competitor):

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That is a big man


Crazy how height dwarfs everyone. Made The Rock look like The Pebble

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Height and bone structure. That dude is skinny but he’s wider than The Rock.

Brian is a particularly freaky guy. If you ever see him at a show, he stands out even from the other strongmen. I find the hands particularly crazy, it’s how my son’s hand looks in mine but that’s an adult male haha

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That guy could use a dorm fridge as a lunchmate and it would look perfectly normal.

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Don’t worry for the delay and thank you for your thorough response!

How would you suggest going about this? I’ve noticed this myself, so I always tried to emphasize Incline presses and I messed around with fly variations like low to high cable flies.
Haven’t had much success though. I have been told numerous time that as far as chest I was blessed genetic wise. I personally never agreed with that. Yes my chest has always been bigger than the other body parts, but it doesn’t look very aesthetic IMO.

Since I’ve always worked my middle delts quite hard (as a matter of fact they are the body part I put the most work in so far) they have developed a bit more than my front delts (at least that’s what it looks like to me), so what do you suggest I do in order to further develop those? I tried numerous variations of lateral raises, including standing, sitting, against a bench chest supported, lying on an Incline bench, on cables etc. Currently my routine calls for a 3x6-10 of db ohp on “upper strength” day and for 4x8-12 db ohp, 2x6-10 wide grip Bb Upright row, and 3x15-20 side raises, after back. Should I change that around?

That’s something I had already thought about. However, that calls a question: in my current program I’m supposed to train legs the day after back and shoulders. Will that impact my recovery if I train back and shoulders a day and then the day after I train legs heavy?

I had already taken a quick look at the topic a month ago, but I will make sure to read that more thoroughly as soon as I have time!

However, from what i recall, he stated that his routine was geared towards fat loss and muscle retention, so that’s designed for someone who already has quite a bit of muscle and is happy with how they look, isn’t it?

I’d continue doing what you’re doing - put emphasis on upper chest exercises. It doesn’t matter what the exercises are as long as you feel the exercise in your upper chest. And then it’s just time. Nobody likes to hear that, but it will take years before you look in the mirror and say “Hey…where’d my collar bone go?”

This is a tricky question to answer via the internet. I’m not there with you when you train so it’s hard to give really specific advice; I don’t want to tell you to change your exercises or rep scheme, and I don’t want to tell you to add intensifiers because I think having a plan and sticking to that plan is very important – especially in the beginning.

Plus, shoulders are the poorest (visually) body part for me…so I hate trying to give advice on how to make them goo (I feel like a fraud doing that). However, since you asked, I’ll give you my take on training shoulders:

I started training shoulders the way I train legs: Do a movement until you can’t bear the burning-sensation any longer; break past the pain barrier. I did this by lightening the weight and doing sets until I couldn’t contract the muscle any longer. This might have been sets of 30-60 for a month…but once you learn how to break past the pain barrier, suddenly you are able to squeeze out a 6th, 7th, or 8th rep with a weight that you stopped at rep 5 with.

I don’t know if that’s good advice or not, but it’s what helped me or, more specifically, altered my mind-set and perseverance.

No, I wouldn’t necessarily change anything about your shoulder training structure. Like I said, sticking to a plan is good - it creates habit and teachers discipline which will only be benefits later on.

Perhaps my only suggestion concerns Bb Upright Rows. I couldn’t feel those correctly for the longest time. Then I saw a video of Dana Linn Bailey doing upright rows using the cable machine, but she was laying on the ground with the cable as low as possible. She did those with a cambered bar attachment and with the rope attachment. Doing upright rows in this manner really taught me how to feel the movement in my delts and it also taught me that I was using too much momentum/swinging without even realizing it.

Absolutely not. I’ve been training legs the day after back for the past two years. Initially, I had to back off the weight I was using for squats, but strength comes back relatively quickly. Just make sure you’re eating enough and getting enough sleep those two nights and you should be fine.

That was his goal, yes; however, that is really all about the diet and not the training plan (unless we’re counting all the cardio he did). So it’s not so much about taking his plan in its entirety and using it for yourself, it’s about learning why successful people do the things that they do and then evaluating your own protocols and methodologies.

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after taking a look at myself, i noticed that the “upper” portion of my chest looks smaller than the rest in terms of “how much” lower chest i have vs upper. i don’t know how to explain that: it just looks like the muscle in the lower portion of my chest has more room to grow than the smaller upper part (which i clearly see separated if i contract my chest hard). as far as feeling the upper chest working: i can tell you that if i focus very hard, i end up feeling it even in flat db presses! maybe i still have to develop a stronger mmc in order to more specifically target that area.

thank you for being honest about this! i don’t see statements like this very often on the net (actually, i hardly ever hear them in real life as well)

i have experienced the intense burning you are talking about as i’m coming off from a cycle of CT’s shoulder growth factor training program, in which i really had to test how much pain i could tolerate while training shoulders. turns out, it was quite a bit. however, when i’m doing lateral raises i come to a point where actual muscle failure happens and i can’t do one more rep with the same technique no matter how hard i try and ignore the pain (i have to either use
momentum or shorten the lever arm), so i guess i already broke thru that pain barrier in some sense.

today i tried something different for shoulders: after doing back, i did 2 sets of 20 side raises (they were near failure, not just warm up), followed by 3 sets of db ohp, trying to keep emphasis on the middle of the ROM. after that, i did 3 more heavier sets of side raises, with a double drop set on the last set. good pump. how’s that look?

i think i’ll ditch upright rows for the time being: although i definitely feel something in my delts, they don’t feel right. most people complain about shoulder pain doing them, i personally find them harder on my wrists than on my shoulders. either way, there are better ways to work shoulder abduction and the middle delts. i will look up what you said about cable upright rows, thanks for the input.


also since you mentioned the lack of back pics, here are some updated pics (i took these right after my back and shoulder workout tonight, so keep in mind i had a bit of a pump still going on, plus the ligthning seems to have helped a bit):

since we’re talking about physique development in general, i included a pic of me with clothes on. i’m always recognized by new people as someone who lifts, and my peers seem to think i’m pretty big. while i agree that i probably look thicker than your average 17-yo, i would probably do better with some more width from the front, and i certainly have lots of room for improvement all around


i was not flexing abs. still, my mid section doesn’t look very good. that’s for sure because of the fat layer covering it. however do you think i would benefit from some form of direct core work? which kind?


as you can see my upper traps give me the appareance of pretty sloped down shoulders. nothing i can do here tho, i believe, since it’s genetic and bone structure.


lighting and posing were dialed in on this one for sure! this is one of the best pics i’ve ever been taken and i’m proud of my back development so far


lats seem to have improved too


i haven’t really learned to do the most muscular pose properly yet, so advice on this is welcomed. i wasn’t flexing abs here either (damn i always forget about flexing abs)
my delts have improved since doing CT’s program, but here you can see how narrow i look from the front. those damned traps! also my left delt looks bigger than the right one when posing and rounder when standing normally.

any feedback/input is highly appreciated from anyone :slight_smile:

A few thoughts…

You don’t look ‘narrow’ from the front. Your structure is fine.

You have a long neck, which contributes to your slope-shouldered look. Consider doing some direct neck work to thicken it (which will in turn make it seem shorter).

Relatedly, your current haircut accentuates/adds to the apparent length of your neck. A lower and ‘wider’ (ie, fuller on the sides) haircut would be more flattering in this regard.

When doing delt work, make sure you’re not unconsciously shrugging your shoulders. This is a mistake many people make (including me). When doing laterals and/or rear-delt work, take a form-check periodically to make sure you’re keeping your shoulders ‘low’; ie, you’re not letting them move up toward your ears on the concentric portion of the movement.

Work your lower lats.

Work your forearms. Throw in some reverse and/or hammer curls every biceps workout.

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This summer I was doing plate neck extensions and flexions, 3x10 for each. However I haven’t been consistent with it and I stopped. I will look to add then back into my routine

Would you mind posting a pic of a type of cut similar to the one you mean? I have looked into the hair issue for 2 years now as I had already figured this out but I failed to find a solution. My face is oval, I’ve got a very high forehead and my hair is pretty thin and messy, so it’s been hard to find anything else that looks remotely decent other than my current style.

Luckily I sorted this out already: months ago I was only feeling my traps when doing laterals and I found out that I could put more tension on my delt by depressing the shoulder as you said. Now I have zero problems feeling lateral raises in my delt even though I’m not depressing the shoulder consciously (it may even come up a bit to help with the last reps or on heavier sets, but I still feel the delt doing virtually all the work)

Any specific exercise to target that area?

Will do

You’re already looking bigger. Good job!

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I think I told you this a few months ago. Consider this hairstyle. .

Also, great progress. You’ve definitely improved.
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Something like this:

Edit: @dchris beat me to it.

In the photos, your hair is very short on the sides, and relatively ‘tall’ on top (unless I’m misinterpreting shadows as hair). That sort of haircut elongates the appearance of your head and neck. Let the sides fill out, keep the top less tall. Or, don’t worry about it (seriously).

Smith-machine rows. Bend over so you’re not-quite-parallel to the floor. Pull to your navel or just below it. This is key: Hold the bar at the top and flex your lower lats for two seconds. (If you can’t hold the pause, the weight is too heavy.) 4-6 sets of 8-12 reps.

Also, this (although I would rec doing the movement a little slower, and really trying to feel it in your lower lats):

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I agree with what @EyeDentist said and I’ve said before. You have good structure; the muscle you already have is pretty well balanced. When I was pointing out ‘weak’ areas, I wasn’t trying to convey that they look bad or under-developed; rather, I was only pointing out that increasing the size in those areas would be a visual benefit.

I think you’re at the point where your foundation is good, it’s just going to take time to continue adding size.

Everybody can benefit from direct core work. I am a fan of doing two movements for abs (on a regular basis): 1 - Crunches with your feet/legs on the wall or over a bench (this will take your quads out of the equation and allow you to focus on the top portion of your abs) and 2 - hanging leg/knee raises for lower abs (reverse crunches if you need to build up the lower ab strength).

I hit abs twice a week (once at the end of my first/heavy leg day…3 sets of each kind for however many reps I can get…and on delt/arm day…5 sets of each kind for however many reps I can get).

But remember: direct core work won’t make your abs more visible – that’s all diet.

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Okay, so lets say someone never does any direct core work. They’re at 12% bodyfat and they can see some abbz. They add in direct core work a few times a week and in a few months at the same bodyfat level there abbs are more visible due to more blockier developed abbs. Yes diet is key but you cant say direct ckre work wont make the abbs a tiny bit more visible unless its a higher bodyfat.

Look at ryans casey transformation, yes on the right his bodyfat is lower etc and hes a few years older but his abbs look considerably better after years of lifting. images (5)

I’m sorry – you are correct.

If you don’t have developed abs and you develop your abs, they will be more noticeable. If you do crazy amounts of direct ab work without changing your nutrition, you might see your abs more because you are now expending more energy compared to what you are intaking.

However, for a lot of individuals who AREN’T 13 years old and already have developed abs, doing direct core work won’t make a lot of difference visually – that’s the diet.

In argumentation, it’s typically bad form to use an extreme example of something in order to dispute a general example of that same thing.

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not to mention that in his example, the second pic is taken at a different angle and with different lighting

i misunderstood and thought you were generalising that in all instances direct core work wont make abbs more visible and only diet will do that. I agree diet is the main factor though. My example of Ryan Casey was not the best example .

Well yeah but i did a quick google search for ryan just for an example, it wasnt the best example definitely. Ive spoken to ryan Through social media and he stated he has never done any direct core work and that just doing weights in general built his abbs. However im sure if he did abb work there would be an improvement.