[quote]eeu743 wrote:
I don’t think most people get to three plates on the DL anywhere near as quickly as they do one plate on the bench. I have been working for a couple of years, and I am just getting to your beginner standards for legs…so what do you call the people way behind me?
ULTRANEWBZ?[/quote]
ubernoob
noobinator
he doesnt count, he was created in a lab with rhinoscerous genes or something.
didnt he already break every record for his age and hes been training what a couple years -if that? and also completely natural.
[quote]irishpowerhouse wrote:
Sorry to hear that.
I was just thinking of the average trainee, I mean if you have been training a few years, and training properly your squat should be past 220 lbs by now. Unless you are very skinny.
I did say that it was based on a trainee in the 190 - 230 range of body weight.
[/quote]
I can squat more than 225, and I can bench more than 135. My DL is probably right around 315. My bodyweight is right around that too. I didn’t say I couldn’t do it, I just don’t know if I would really say that those are “beginner” numbers.
OK, so this thread caught my attention… Where do I fall in? I go about 160lb right now (up from 140 at the beginning of the year). I don’t max out often, but I’m repping 225lb x3 bench, 270lb x5 squat, 260x5 dead. My deads lag behind my squat, but should they really be THAT MUCH higher, an extra plate?
I think your deadlift levels are flawed; I hardly ever see people deadlifting more than 3 plates, if even 3 at all. I’m not flaming it, but I think your deadlift levels are a bit high, same idea of what eeu said.
I think beginners and intermediates are really all about mindsets and approach to training. For example:
Beginner: The chap that comes in and performs his benches and his bicep curls. Maybe some leg presses. He understands protien is important so he might down a tin of Tuna every couple of days.
Intermediate: This guy has done his reading. He knows about Squats, Deadlifts, Pullups and he bases his routines around them even though his numbers might not be big he keeps going at them. He has some suppliments to keep him going, whey protien etc… and tries to eat as clean and as much as his lifestyle will allow.
Advanced: This guy has been training for a long time and it shows. Hes lifting big, hes looking big. He has plenty of suppliments inc his fish oil (and his Surge!) He buys half a tonne of chicken and veg at the start of the week and makes his meals in advance. He can squat plenty and dead plenty. His bench is great and also his cleans. He suppliments these core movements with stuff he has left over from years of training that he knows compliments the big ones perfectly. He uses isolation movements, but only to address certain issues. He comes, he kicks ass and leaves. Everyone in the gym goes… ‘monster!’ afterward.
Advanced plus… As above but he does it for a living maybe… You will see him in competitions. He’s the sort who might even turn a hot date down if he’s preparing for a contest.
Perhaps peoples deadlifts are lagging behind because they train chest more often or neglect deadlifts a little.
I think 3 plates a side on the deadlift is something most people get to within the first year of training. Maybe i am being biased because my gym is a deadlift paradise, its all we seem to do. I understand some people dont give the lift their 100% due to training in commerical gyms where they are scared to make noise or drop the weight on the floor.
haha ok whatever you say. I guess I am just teh suxorz.
[quote]irishpowerhouse wrote:
Perhaps peoples deadlifts are lagging behind because they train chest more often or neglect deadlifts a little.
I understand some people dont give the lift their 100% due to training in commerical gyms where they are scared to make noise or drop the weight on the floor. [/quote]
Perhaps I can just squat more than I can dead
Going to have to point out here before anyone else gets the wrong idea.
This is not fact. Its not true for everyone. I am not a scientist, a coach or anyone qualified to say this is right. it just seemed like a way of putting people into different levels of strength etc.
Im the opposite, my squat really sucks bad <200 but I can dead 3 plates. Ive been training those 2 movements for only 6 months. I must just have a naturally developed lower back from lifting things at work over the years maybe. I heard most ppl were better at one than the other tho.
[quote]Benreturns wrote:
I think beginners and intermediates are really all about mindsets and approach to training. For example:
Beginner: The chap that comes in and performs his benches and his bicep curls. Maybe some leg presses. He understands protien is important so he might down a tin of Tuna every couple of days.
Intermediate: This guy has done his reading. He knows about Squats, Deadlifts, Pullups and he bases his routines around them even though his numbers might not be big he keeps going at them. He has some suppliments to keep him going, whey protien etc… and tries to eat as clean and as much as his lifestyle will allow.
Advanced: This guy has been training for a long time and it shows. Hes lifting big, hes looking big. He has plenty of suppliments inc his fish oil (and his Surge!) He buys half a tonne of chicken and veg at the start of the week and makes his meals in advance.
He can squat plenty and dead plenty. His bench is great and also his cleans. He suppliments these core movements with stuff he has left over from years of training that he knows compliments the big ones perfectly.
He uses isolation movements, but only to address certain issues. He comes, he kicks ass and leaves. Everyone in the gym goes… ‘monster!’ afterward.
Advanced plus… As above but he does it for a living maybe… You will see him in competitions. He’s the sort who might even turn a hot date down if he’s preparing for a contest.
[/quote]
I think today’s beginner is in his teens,eats every supplement in the market,and does curls and bench and not too much legs because they are strong anyway and he jogs.
[quote]Alffi wrote:
Benreturns wrote:
I think beginners and intermediates are really all about mindsets and approach to training. For example:
Beginner: The chap that comes in and performs his benches and his bicep curls. Maybe some leg presses. He understands protien is important so he might down a tin of Tuna every couple of days.
Intermediate: This guy has done his reading. He knows about Squats, Deadlifts, Pullups and he bases his routines around them even though his numbers might not be big he keeps going at them. He has some suppliments to keep him going, whey protien etc… and tries to eat as clean and as much as his lifestyle will allow.
Advanced: This guy has been training for a long time and it shows. Hes lifting big, hes looking big. He has plenty of suppliments inc his fish oil (and his Surge!) He buys half a tonne of chicken and veg at the start of the week and makes his meals in advance.
He can squat plenty and dead plenty. His bench is great and also his cleans. He suppliments these core movements with stuff he has left over from years of training that he knows compliments the big ones perfectly. He uses isolation movements, but only to address certain issues. He comes, he kicks ass and leaves. Everyone in the gym goes… ‘monster!’ afterward.
Advanced plus… As above but he does it for a living maybe… You will see him in competitions. He’s the sort who might even turn a hot date down if he’s preparing for a contest.
I think today’s beginner is in his teens,eats every supplement in the market,and does curls and bench and not too much legs because they are strong anyway and he jogs.
[/quote]
hahah Yeah, everyone knows jogging to the gym gives a good enough leg workout
[quote]irishpowerhouse wrote:
Perhaps peoples deadlifts are lagging behind because they train chest more often or neglect deadlifts a little.
[/quote]
I think this is the reason why, and the other way holds true as well, my bench is lagging because i liked deadlifts and squats. I was able to pull 3 plates in a month.
I think it would be better to measure in totals for people with higher squats or lower benches.
For example (200lb aka 198lb BW RAW):
Newbie- 500lb-750lb
Beginners 750-900lb
Intermediate 900lb-1300lb
Advanced 1300-1500lb
Elite 1500lb+
Strength standards are nice to have, but I think Mark Rippetoe’s system for classifying trainees is much more useful, especially when it comes to designing programming. I’m reciting this from memory, so it may not be perfect, but I think it’s about right.
Beginner: A beginner is defined solely as a trainee who can make progress every workout. This is the idea behind the Starting Strength protocol–a beginner can squat 3 times per week and add weight to the bar every session because his/her body is so unaccustomed to training that adaptations occur after every session.
Intermediate: An intermediate trainee can no longer count on consistent gains from workout to workout, and so must take a larger view of his training schedule. Variations in intensity and exercise selection within the week are necessary to elicit performance gains, which may occur from week to week, rather than from training session to training session.
Advanced: An advanced trainee requires manipulations of load, volume, and exercise selection not only from week to week, but also from mesocycle to mesocycle in order to continue to make progress, due to the high degree of adaptation already attained. In the case of elite athletes (i.e. Olympians), cycles may last as long as 4 years, with periodic peaks and dips in loading to produce an optimal peak to coincide with the athlete’s competition schedule.
Essentially, the measure of a trainee’s level of advancement is the requisite complexity of programming necessary to produce regular progress.
[quote]JCS19Y wrote:
OK, so this thread caught my attention… Where do I fall in? I go about 160lb right now (up from 140 at the beginning of the year). I don’t max out often, but I’m repping 225lb x3 bench, 270lb x5 squat, 260x5 dead. My deads lag behind my squat, but should they really be THAT MUCH higher, an extra plate?
I think your deadlift levels are flawed; I hardly ever see people deadlifting more than 3 plates, if even 3 at all. I’m not flaming it, but I think your deadlift levels are a bit high, same idea of what eeu said.[/quote]
Six months into training (only three months on deads/squats), I hit 315# and 225# for reps, respectively. Those are newb numbers, anyone who applies themselves can easily achieve them.
If you train somewhere like 24 Hour Fatness, sure, you rarely see anyone dead more than a single plate (if at all), those leg bend pseudo-squats, etc.
It’s really not a big deal…