What is an Advanced Trainee

I was thinking last night about how training is made up of different stages in a way, and I thought of a pretty good way of finding out what level of a trainee someone is.

People who talk about training often categorise people as being either; beginners, intermediate, or advanced.
But there seems to be a problem when it comes to finding out which group you belong to. I mean does 10 years training automatically make you advanced? I don’t think it necessarily does.

So I have thought of a way of finding out what level you are at.
Before I get flamed this is just a rough idea and not written in stone but I think for most people in gyms, its true.

Please note this is a rough guide to how the weights you lift in the big 3, reflect what level you are at. It is probably correct for most trainees between 190 and 230 lbs weight, I think we can allow an upper and lower limit here. Obviously a 500 lb genetic freak will never be a beginner as such.

Here it is;
NB (Each lift has an extra plate per side for those who didnt already notice)

Beginner/newbie - Level 1

Bench press- with one plate per side (20kg or 45lbs) - They may add smaller plates to the bar of course but in their regular workouts they never seem to press with 2 x plates per side.

Squat - With two plates per side. They never seem to reach the squat with 3 plates on each side that looks much more impressive, they add on smaller plates and almost get to it but they are not able to do those mighty 3 plates.

Deadlift - The big lift, the daddy, and here the beginner quickly reaches 3 plates per side, usually. This is 140 kg or 315 lbs. I never see beginners going above three 45lb plates per side. They might add on a few 22.5lb plates but dont often get above it.

Intermediate trainee/ level 2

Bench press- with two plates per side. Again working up to almost the weights of 3 x plates but not able to do that weight yet.

Squat- With you guessed it 3 x plates per side. Again working up to bigger lifts but still a bit away from comfortably doing 4 plates

Deadlift- Again we go up a plate from the beginner and from the other two lifts. Intermediate trainees are usually pulling 4 plates per side (180kg/405 lbs) heck they might even get a 450 ok. But the 5 plates a side is just too much to consider yet.

Advanced/ Strong/ allowed to bend bars - level 3

Bench press- 3 plates per side is light work and again they add on 20 or 30 lbs more or whatever else they might achieve in their lifetime.

Squat- 4 plates per side. Yep a pretty big squat, which take a lot of hours in the gym to achieve. Those who frequently rep out with 180 kg / 405lbs are advanced. Those who do 450, well they are more advanced.

Deadlift- 5 plates per side. A big pull. Not many people can lift this off the floor with relative ease and not be strong as a bull in pretty much every lift.

Ok so its not rocket science, actually its no science at all its simply an idea based on real world experience. Basically when you increase your lift by another plate per side you have reached a new level.

Obviously we could say there is a super advanced level and there are people there, but not many, so I think this about covers most people.

So there it is. See which category your lifts fall under, and try to get to the next level. Once you go up a level, your physique is able to go places you didnt think it could.

Thoughts…

I think this overlooks a couple of things. 1) it doesn’t account for female lifters. 2) it doesn’t account for body weight.

I think it would make more sense to use bodyweight and the relation to the lift. That way, someone that weighs 145 and is squatting 300 would not be considered a beginner.

Just my thoughts.

Yeah the whole body weight to weight lifted ratios has been done before.

As I said its not a definitive guide, just a rough idea for the average trainee who is in that weight category, probably the vast majority of people who lift.

Of course it doesnt include female lifters, but im going to go out on a limb here and say that the majority are male. Obviously females are not going to be doing the same poundages as males.

From a strength athlete perspective I think this would work well. But bodybuilding is about adding muscle mass. If someone is very short (say under 5’5") they may never reach the “advanced” level on some of those lifts (bone structure also plays a role). Yet it would be pretty silly to say that a 5’4" 190 lb brick shit house is not advanced.

On the other hand, someone who comes in at 230 lbs to start with and is tall (say 6’3"+) might reach those numbers in a relatively short period of time, yet they may not have added much bodyweight to do it. Would you really say that they are more advanced than the shorter guy (who may have added uppwards of 100 lbs to their BW)?

I think that categorizing people into levels of advancement is a multifaceted process. You have to take into consideration:

  1. height
  2. amount of BW added from training
  3. years of experience
  4. strength

But, if I were to use any one of those criteria at the exclusion of the others it would be #2, amount of BW added from training. Since that really is the goal of BB’ing.

That’s my opinion anyways.

i think irish and sentoguy made good posts.

irish thats a good way to determine the level of someone, i think most people whove been doing this seriously would agree with that chart since its the one most of us carry in our own heads to analyze ourselves/others.

sentoguy makes the good point too that in BBing it isnt nesecerialy about the weight you add to the bar but the weight you add to your body.

although i think if you train bodybuilding style and would test out your strength every now and then those are the numbers you would be hitting relative to your progess.

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
From a strength athlete perspective I think this would work well. But bodybuilding is about adding muscle mass. If someone is very short (say under 5’5") they may never reach the “advanced” level on some of those lifts (bone structure also plays a role). Yet it would be pretty silly to say that a 5’4" 190 lb brick shit house is not advanced.

On the other hand, someone who comes in at 230 lbs to start with and is tall (say 6’3"+) might reach those numbers in a relatively short period of time, yet they may not have added much bodyweight to do it. Would you really say that they are more advanced than the shorter guy (who may have added uppwards of 100 lbs to their BW)?

I think that categorizing people into levels of advancement is a multifaceted process. You have to take into consideration:

  1. height
  2. amount of BW added from training
  3. years of experience
  4. strength

But, if I were to use any one of those criteria at the exclusion of the others it would be #2, amount of BW added from training. Since that really is the goal of BB’ing.

That’s my opinion anyways.[/quote]

I agree with this, but I also wanted to add that it’s impossible to just use 1 of the criteria with the exclusion of others. I’ve gained about 50 pounds in a year and a half but I’m 6’5". Someone who is much shorter will probably find it harder to gain as much overall weight because their frame is just that much smaller.

Simply massive!

Its not the holy grail of strength charts, its just like a rough idea that you have reached new places with your training.

People I have spoke to in gyms who are competitive bodybuilders mind you, always say the day they benched 3 plates a side is a day they will never forget.

Adding an extra plate per side is a big milestone to get to, and thats what I was saying.

It definitely is a huge milestone, I can’t wait till the day I can rep 3 plates a side on bench, rip 6 plates a side form the floor, and squat 5 plates a side. My goals are much past that though, I want to be a strong mofo!

i don’t know if I’d mark that as determining if someone is advanced. I know a guy who is just built naturally strong as fuck in his legs. yesterday was his 2nd time squatting in a year and he ATG squatted 365 for 2 reps. Is he advanced just bc he naturally can squat that much? lol

Thats not a massive squat by any means, it would put him as intermediate. Some people are naturally built for squatting. guy in my gym didnt do it for 3 years or more and within a month he was able to get to 405 for 6 reps.

Exrx provides a resource on this.

Classifications and description:

Example,
Bench Press Standards

From my experience the exrx site posted above is pretty accurate. Almost everyone I know including myself had to earn the first plate on bench, squat, and power clean by working up to it. Most guys however can pull 135 untrained.

Then again, according to the standards posted up there im still at the beginner level. I started weighing 140 tho and now I weigh 175. Im almost at your intermediate tho…

Im guessing you have the beginner level around 1 year, intermediate around 2-4, and advanced 5+?

I don’t know if I’m the first one to say it in this thread or not, but I like this idea. I think it’s a great way to think about it.

A lot of posters above me are trying to use the exception as the rule. And who gives a crap about women’s strength standards? It sort of goes without saying that we aren’t talking about that, and especially since the only strength women have is in the acceptance of others.

We are not all 5’4 and 300lbs and untrained.

Most people are average height average weight and these standards are an excellent way to view progress and level of experience in the gym.

To all of the people posting in this thread… can you PERSONALLY say that these standards absolutely wouldn’t apply to you?

Hey guys its not gospel or anything just a way of looking at how strong you are. I know its more accurate and scientific to look at what percentage of bodyweight you can lift but this is a practical and easy way to look at someone and say how well hes progressed over the years.

Theres something special about adding on that extra plate on each side. Everyone loves to slide on that plate and listen to the iron rattle and know its taken hell out of them to get to that point.

I am still intermediate in all lifts, but I am closing in on advanced. Hopefully within 5 years I will get there. Bench press is around 135 kg so thats 5 kg off the three plates per side for advanced.

i have no doubt that when I am able to bench press 3 plates per side for a few reps or more, I will look a hell of alot different. Thats the point im making, it takes your training to a new level of size, strength and everything else.

[quote]mr popular wrote:
I don’t know if I’m the first one to say it in this thread or not, but I like this idea. I think it’s a great way to think about it.

A lot of posters above me are trying to use the exception as the rule. And who gives a crap about women’s strength standards? It sort of goes without saying that we aren’t talking about that, and especially since the only strength women have is in the acceptance of others.

We are not all 5’4 and 300lbs and untrained.

Most people are average height average weight and these standards are an excellent way to view progress and level of experience in the gym.

To all of the people posting in this thread… can you PERSONALLY say that these standards absolutely wouldn’t apply to you?[/quote]

No, I think once i get to 190 ill be intermediate and these standards will fit nicely.

I think we should also consider that it may take somebody their whole life lifting to achieve the advanced level and that it represents the upper limit of genetic potential. If so, then I think these standards look pretty good!

If that’s criteria for a beginner, then I am truly humbled. Good, solid guidelines though.

I have deadlifted 5 plates per side before for one very hard and very dangerous rep, I dont consider myself having reaches the advanced deadlift ranks yet. Although I can pull 6 plates a side on the rack partials

I don’t think most people get to three plates on the DL anywhere near as quickly as they do one plate on the bench. I have been working for a couple of years, and I am just getting to your beginner standards for legs…so what do you call the people way behind me?

ULTRANEWBZ?

Sorry to hear that.

I was just thinking of the average trainee, I mean if you have been training a few years, and training properly your squat should be past 220 lbs by now. Unless you are very skinny.

I did say that it was based on a trainee in the 190 - 230 range of body weight.