T Nation

What is America's War on Drugs Costing?

Politics and World Issues
#21

[quote]njrusmc wrote:
Your contributions to society are noted, but stay on topic. The topic is “War on drugs” and your contributions beyond that are appreciated but not relevant. If you are using illegal drugs, you are keeping drug dealers (felons) in business. Therefore, I believe you are indeed part of the problem. Even if you buy MJ from a dealer, chances are he sells a ton of other shit … so by putting cash in his pocket you are also permitting him to expand his heroine and cocaine business, I would imagine.

If you personally didn’t use MJ, the illegal drug business would suffer a small bit. Do you contest this?

Consider gay rights. Gay people want to get married but could not legally do so. That doesn’t mean gay people are actually getting married and sharing benefits with one another. It’s illegal and governments didn’t honor it. For the most part, their assembly has been peaceful and any legalization of gay marraige was without crime. This gives it at least some legitimacy; whether I personally agree or not is irrelevant. Using illegal drugs then telling the government “I want to use illegal drugs” is a backasswards way of solving serious problems.[/quote]

I am sure from some’s perspective I am part of the problem I am also sure that people that make judgements on on faulty or skewed information are also part of the problem.

I personally do not want to use illegal drugs . I would rather they be legal and I advocate for their legality at evry oportunity

#22

^I understand you want them to be legal, but they are not legal. Therefore, you DO want to use illegal drugs. You DO use illegal drugs. If you were a drug-free advocate for MJ, then I salute you. But indeed you are not. You are feeding the illegal drug business, my brother.

I am not saying that those politicians who have made MJ illegal are the good guys. I’m not saying their information is good. They might very well be part of the problem. But you are definitely part of it! Thats my point. Put down the drugs and continue advocating for their legality and you’ll be doing everyone a favor.

#23

[quote]njrusmc wrote:
^I understand you want them to be legal, but they are not legal. Therefore, you DO want to use illegal drugs. You DO use illegal drugs. If you were a drug-free advocate for MJ, then I salute you. But indeed you are not. You are feeding the illegal drug business, my brother.

I am not saying that those politicians who have made MJ illegal are the good guys. I’m not saying their information is good. They might very well be part of the problem. But you are definitely part of it! Thats my point. Put down the drugs and continue advocating for their legality and you’ll be doing everyone a favor.[/quote]

well you are entitled to your opinion , I doubt any one would care or appriciate me quitting MJ :slight_smile:

#24

I’m stating a fact, dude. It isn’t an opinion that buying illegal drugs implies supporting the illegal drug business. The drug dealer certainly wouldn’t want you to quit!

#25

Well… if one buys KB or hydro from local growers that one personally knows, it’s grown in America and you’re not supporting the same ones who patrol territories with guns and sell crack and heroine. Buying the low grade stuff from Mexico definitely feeds the cartels.

#26

^Possibly. I would imagine that a guy who sells MJ is probably selling other shit too, even if it’s local. If I were a drug dealer selling MJ for relatively cheap, I might as well sell cocaine at premium prices. I’m already breaking the law, so why not?

#27

[quote]njrusmc wrote:
I’m stating a fact, dude. It isn’t an opinion that buying illegal drugs implies supporting the illegal drug business. The drug dealer certainly wouldn’t want you to quit![/quote]

While agree that I am in fact supporting some illegal enterprise (Marijuana) supply chain. I hope you are intelligent to see that America’s drug policy is totally supporting the illicit drug trade and Drug cartels

#28

No, it isn’t supporting the illicit drug trade. The drug trade my exist as a result of the nation’s ban on certain drugs, but it isn’t as if we are supporting it. Would the illegal drug cartels go away if all drugs were legal? Probably not; Mexican drug dealers would just charge less money for their products, or they’d literally kill their competitors to stay in business. That’s what I would do if I were a drug dealer.

#29

[quote]njrusmc wrote:
No, it isn’t supporting the illicit drug trade. The drug trade my exist as a result of the nation’s ban on certain drugs, but it isn’t as if we are supporting it. Would the illegal drug cartels go away if all drugs were legal? Probably not; Mexican drug dealers would just charge less money for their products, or they’d literally kill their competitors to stay in business. That’s what I would do if I were a drug dealer.[/quote]

look at alcohol prohibition , same results . I agree the Mafia did not go out of business , but it took the BIG wind out of their sails

#30

Right. I don’t claim to have all the answers. Really, I don’t. My only argument is that is you want to affect change you should do it legally, especially when supporting it illegally is, in turn, supporting something very bad. If my state outlaws the death penalty but I still feel serial felons should be executed, I can’t just kill them myself. Even if I think it’s the right thing to do.

#31

[quote]njrusmc wrote:
Right. I don’t claim to have all the answers. Really, I don’t. My only argument is that is you want to affect change you should do it legally, especially when supporting it illegally is, in turn, supporting something very bad. If my state outlaws the death penalty but I still feel serial felons should be executed, I can’t just kill them myself. Even if I think it’s the right thing to do.[/quote]

I have been on the legalizing MJ kick since the early 70s. It looked very promising in the Carter Admin. But then came Social conservatism , meaning misinformed people dictating social behavior to others.

As with Alcohol come EASY. Neither will leagalization of MJ

#32

I’ll agree with the nonsense brought forward by social conservatism and it’s bad habit of dictating social behavior to others. You must be older than dirt!

#33

[quote]njrusmc wrote:
I’ll agree with the nonsense brought forward by social conservatism and it’s bad habit of dictating social behavior to others. You must be older than dirt![/quote]

You are younger than my children, you are 13 years older than my Grand daughter . You think of it all wrong I am not older than dirt you are just a baby :slight_smile:

#34

…yea, you are definitely older than dirt. What grandfather isn’t?

#35

[quote]njrusmc wrote:
No, it isn’t supporting the illicit drug trade. The drug trade my exist as a result of the nation’s ban on certain drugs, but it isn’t as if we are supporting it. Would the illegal drug cartels go away if all drugs were legal? Probably not; Mexican drug dealers would just charge less money for their products, or they’d literally kill their competitors to stay in business. That’s what I would do if I were a drug dealer.[/quote]

If drugs were legal to sell, wouldn’t you buy local at a cheaper price than buy shit from Mexico?

You legalize pot, LSD, and other non/barely addictive substances, then yes, a small handful will look to buy harder stuff from illegal sources - but the rest who may well only try harder stuff because a drug dealer is peddling that crap won’t do so.

To make it simple for others, two scenarios:

  1. Teenager goes to corner store and buys pot.
  2. Teenager goes to drug dealer and buys pot. Teenager is also offered meth.

Not hard to choose which is more desirable. Also takes the power away from international cartels.

#36

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]njrusmc wrote:
No, it isn’t supporting the illicit drug trade. The drug trade my exist as a result of the nation’s ban on certain drugs, but it isn’t as if we are supporting it. Would the illegal drug cartels go away if all drugs were legal? Probably not; Mexican drug dealers would just charge less money for their products, or they’d literally kill their competitors to stay in business. That’s what I would do if I were a drug dealer.[/quote]

look at alcohol prohibition , same results . I agree the Mafia did not go out of business , but it took the BIG wind out of their sails [/quote]

The difference with prohibition is that alcohol was already socially acceptable, everyone drank including police and prohibition was widely unpopular. This allowed everyone to turn a blind eye to illicit supply. The same does not hold true for any illegal drugs.

#37

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]njrusmc wrote:
No, it isn’t supporting the illicit drug trade. The drug trade my exist as a result of the nation’s ban on certain drugs, but it isn’t as if we are supporting it. Would the illegal drug cartels go away if all drugs were legal? Probably not; Mexican drug dealers would just charge less money for their products, or they’d literally kill their competitors to stay in business. That’s what I would do if I were a drug dealer.[/quote]

look at alcohol prohibition , same results . I agree the Mafia did not go out of business , but it took the BIG wind out of their sails [/quote]

The difference with prohibition is that alcohol was already socially acceptable, everyone drank including police and prohibition was widely unpopular. This allowed everyone to turn a blind eye to illicit supply. The same does not hold true for any illegal drugs.[/quote]

Weed?

#38

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]njrusmc wrote:
No, it isn’t supporting the illicit drug trade. The drug trade my exist as a result of the nation’s ban on certain drugs, but it isn’t as if we are supporting it. Would the illegal drug cartels go away if all drugs were legal? Probably not; Mexican drug dealers would just charge less money for their products, or they’d literally kill their competitors to stay in business. That’s what I would do if I were a drug dealer.[/quote]

look at alcohol prohibition , same results . I agree the Mafia did not go out of business , but it took the BIG wind out of their sails [/quote]

The difference with prohibition is that alcohol was already socially acceptable, everyone drank including police and prohibition was widely unpopular. This allowed everyone to turn a blind eye to illicit supply. The same does not hold true for any illegal drugs.[/quote]

Weed?

[/quote]

Not enough dope smokers yet. When 90%+ of the population smoke marijuana every day let me know.

#39

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]njrusmc wrote:
No, it isn’t supporting the illicit drug trade. The drug trade my exist as a result of the nation’s ban on certain drugs, but it isn’t as if we are supporting it. Would the illegal drug cartels go away if all drugs were legal? Probably not; Mexican drug dealers would just charge less money for their products, or they’d literally kill their competitors to stay in business. That’s what I would do if I were a drug dealer.[/quote]

look at alcohol prohibition , same results . I agree the Mafia did not go out of business , but it took the BIG wind out of their sails [/quote]

The difference with prohibition is that alcohol was already socially acceptable, everyone drank including police and prohibition was widely unpopular. This allowed everyone to turn a blind eye to illicit supply. The same does not hold true for any illegal drugs.[/quote]

Weed?

[/quote]

Not enough dope smokers yet. When 90%+ of the population smoke marijuana every day let me know.[/quote]

I doubt that 90% of all people drink alcohol everyday.

#40

85%?