T Nation

What IS a Real World Cycle?

Two things right off:

1)I know this is a steroid question, but with guys discussing things like what to do with injection sores and how to use anti-freeze to lose fat, I thought that the “Training” side was a better place to ask, mainly because it’s a little more “real world” “simple”, and “everyday” kinda’ stuff…and this may be too “basic” of a question for that side.

2)I ask for education and learning purposes only…really!


The editor of “Men’s Health” contacts T.C. and tells him that he really likes that pic of chardawg and his honey on the Maldives that appeared in the “Forum Pics” and wants to put him and her in the mag.

T.C. contacts char, at which point he panics! "Damn…I work out…use “Massive Eating”…I look pretty damn good…but “Men’s Health??? Me and my honey need to be a little harder, “vieney” (especially in the abs and arms), and just a little more cut”.

Char decides that the two of them need some “Vitamins”. Nothing ridiculous…they don’t want to be “freaks”…but after all…this is “Men’s Health”!

1)What would be a reasonable, “everyday” steroid cycle for char, just to get “hard”, put on a little SUSTAINABLE mass and to “take it to that next level?” (Product, dose, interval, duration, etc. AND WHY!)

2)What would be a reasonable cycle for HER? (Again…product, dose, interval, duration, etc. AND WHY!)

3)Could someone compare this to the anabolic doses of the Pro’s?

Thanks guys! I hate being ignorant on topics of health and fitness. But this is an area in which I HAVE NO CLUE!

I do know one thing for sure: Whatever Anabolics char chooses to take for this venture, the amount needed for this particular goal would in no way NEAR the quantity taken by the Pros (I’m assuming Mufasa, you mean Pro bodybuilder).

I betcha for either of 'em, winny would be one of the Vitamin S' taken. Right?

Check the FAQ’s; it’s about 1/2 way down the page- practically the same question asked.


Man, I’m glad I saw this question. Almost missed it!

Well, as owner of the body in question, I feel as though I have to comment. A couple of things:

First, you can’t see it in the pic I posted, but my legs suck. I’ve tried everything I can think of to get them up, but it just seems like that’s one area that won’t happen for me. So in order to appear in Men’s Health I’d have to have some sort of “lower body steroid” - don’t know if there is any such animal, although I have heard (very anecdotally) that some roids affect the limbs more than the torso.

Second, that pic was taken about 3 years ago. I was reading MM2000 at that point and had just found T-mag. In the intervening time, I’ve put on some size while keeping about the same amount of BF. (My tan, alas, has suffered.) So honestly, upper body-wise, I don’t think I’m that far away from a Men’s Health cover at this point.

What’s made the difference? Well, three years of more knowledgeable training and eating would be the main thing. I have also tried a couple of the more potent Biotest products - both the ‘ndrosols and MAG-10. So I think that probably taking a steroid isn’t really necessary to put on the amount of (quality) size you’re talking about. However, I am not as veiny as I would need to be for MH. So a cycle of something would probably be needed to harden me up.

As for the former GF (who is still my workout partner, BTW), all she needs to do is get her #%**^! diet in order and she could really look good. She has great genes: the pic was taken when she was 27, and all she does is a foo-foo workout while going out every weekend and drinking with her friends. The few times that she has dieted, all she needs to do is just eat a little less and the fat comes off pretty easily. She takes no supps, not even a protein powder. (Those of you out there who are adept at reading between the lines can probably tell that this is something of a sore point for us…!)

Anyway, just thought I’d put in my two-cents’ worth. Have to say it’s kind of weird having one’s bod thrown out for dissection like this. Then again, it’s sort of fun, too. All comments are welcome.

Thanks, guys!

Char…as always…thanks for being good natured about things! I just wanted to give a hypothetical “real world” scenario so people would know that I wasn’t talking about a competitor OR someone who didn’t even have their diet and workout in order first. Just a guy who was knowlegeble like yourself , worked out, watched his diet, but began to feel like they wanted to “take it to the next level”.

One thought on the ladies too, char. I just read a speel by one of the fitness competitors with her frustration over all the anabolics that were now being used. She’s a VERY knowlegeble gal (has a Masters in something like Molecular Biology). She was stating that it was almost a given that if a woman (or maybe even a man?) was “vieny”, with ripped and vieny glutes and abs, anabolics were almost a given. At least in her mind, you could spot them a mile away…

Joel…you’re right, bro! DAMN what a resource “T-Mag” is on steroids. Between all the “S-Files”, “Constructing A Steroid Cycle 1-4”, “Getting The Gear” and “Steroids For Dummies”, my eyes have TRULY been opened! Let me tell you…the steroid game ain’t one for the faint at heart OR the ignorant…this really IS a dangerous game of hormonal manipulation that people better take a SERIOUS look at before they start…and it’s mostly illegal to boot!

Again…thanks, guys (especially char!), and if you have any more thoughts…keep 'em coming!!!


If you add DNP and Insulin to the mix, you may as well put a bullet in a gun barrell, spin it, and point and click at you head…the odds against you are about the same…

…and who knows the long term effects of Exogenous Growth Hormone Use…

Boy, this is a crazy (and dangerous) game…


Oh, and I posted a note over on the Steroid board to see if maybe some of them would like to come over and educate the rest of us. Might be interesting…

Don’t know about being able to tell just by looking who’s on and who’s not. I’m sure your lady friend is very knowledgeable, but I’m always suspicious when I hear something like that. It’s like back when Ben Johnson got busted, all of a sudden everyone was an expert on “the steroid look”. I’ve known guys in the gym who were on gear and you’d never have been able to tell to look at their physiques - I’ve also known people (mostly here in Japan) who I know for a fact are absolutely natural but who look fantastic. I’m pretty sure that most observers would put them in the gear camp, but they’ve just got great genetics and are serious about living the lifestyle.

I don’t think you can tell, unless it’s someone like a pro BBer who’s obviously “on” (i.e., no one could ever look like that naturally)…and even then, given the genes that they’ve got they’re probably not using as much as people would think. (Remember the Lee Priest interview.)

I’d say a 12 week test/tren/winny cycle would be great for your purposes, unless you really need to add some size before you cut. But if you’re close to where you want to be, try this one: 500mg test enathate weeks 1-10 (or 75mg prop ED 1-12), 75mg tren ED 1-12, 50mg winny ED 7-12, .5mg arimidex ED, and maybe 12.5mcg t3 ED 1-14. Then of course standard clomid therapy after. If you train hard and diet right, that should more that easily get it done. And it’s a tiny fraction of what pros use. A nice sane cutter.

Not to sound mean or rude, but from your comments and obvious lack of knowledge, yet filled with many assumptions.
Most “roid” users probably veiw you exactly the same way you veiw people who think creatine is dangerous.
You nearly burst into tears because jo-schmo thinks creatine can possibly cause cancer.
Users burst into tears because you think “steroids” can possibly cause cancer.
Just an example, but nearly right on the mark.
For one, straight test be it prop, eth or cyp is used very very often in the medical field.
Lets not confuse use and abuse.
A butter knife is dangerous in the hands of a child.
If you cycle properly and safley, and never start a cycle without the proper saftey nets, armidex, clomid, etc.
You are more likley to die in a car accident than suffer the severe (and rare) side effects. Liver etc. Again Gyno and Liver problems are pretty much preventable if your informed and aware.
Hair loss, acne, and testicle shrinkage is probably the only thing you’ll come across. (and yes once you cycle off your testicles go right back to normal).
Personally I did a good 6-9 months of research before I even ordered or posted on suggestions on the Tmag.
After all the studies, all the scientific FACTS I do not see how these can fall under the same category as heroine in any way shape or form.
Now whats humerous is you want to slap people for believing what the media says about creatine, andro, supplements. You know they are so full of crap and have no idea what the hell they are talking about AND no scientific proof.
YET you yourself believe and listen to what the media says about steroids??
Perhaps while you are slapping others you should be slapping yourself also.
Sorry had to vent.

Was that rant directed at ME, Bro? If it was, you MUST be having some “roid rage” or didn’t read my post. I never critisized ANYONE who chose to use the juice…I only said that it’s a game that is NOT for the uninformed and ignorant…and it’s not

And where in the hell did I make ANY comparison to heroin???

If you read the post from the beginning, you will see that my question was in order to obtain KNOWLEDGE so I wouldn’t be ignorant…not to critisize…I even ended my question with “I HAVE NO CLUE!”

Hey…you better decrease your dose of Androsol before you rant again…


Is one of the side effects of the Juice the inability to read?


Where is the pic?

Saw the post in the roid section figured i’d head over. In the situation you have described ASSUMING the person had there diet just right on the money, i would suggest a short cycle of either tren, winnie, or anavar. If your bodyfat is already low, i have found that even just a 2 week cycle of tren or winstrol at measley dosages can have a decent effect on vascularity and to a lesser degree muscle fullness. I would prescribe 75mgs intramuscular injection everyday of winstrol with 75mgs a day of tren. For a first time user this cycle would yeild very nice results. The only drawback is “pincushion” effect from 2 injections a day. But for 14 days i think most people could handle it. I know alot of people would say that this is a pussy cycle but for the situation YOU have described thats the route i’d take.

BF: Thanks! That’s along the lines of the TYPE of thing I was looking for…

This is truly an eye opening, learning experience…


It’s up on the T-Mag Yahoo group, URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TmagPix/. You may have to join the group to see it.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I was hoping that you, out of everyone on the Steroid board, would comment on this thread. If you’ve got time, take a gander and let me know what you think.

Oh, and just in case Bill Roberts is reading this thread, I’d be very interested in what he has to say as well, of course.