[quote]ape288 wrote:
[quote]Drenmi wrote:
Sorry if I stepped on some sore toe here. 
Maybe I should clarify what I mean.
As far as I’m concerned, you need the right technique, tempo and timing to lift good.
The tempo, of course, comes from the power you can apply to the bar, so strength is not useless. You need to be strong in the right positions though, thus “general” strength is overrated. Strength needs to be specific, as well as technique.
This means that technique would need to be perfected first. (Not neccessarily that it is more important than strength though.)
Also, the benefit of strength will decrease the worse your technique gets. If you have poor technique, you may be able to lift 100kg, but you might actually be applying enough force to the bar to clear 120kg if you had the technique. So you are losing 20% of the potential that your strength gives you. When you reach 200kg, you could have lifted 240kg.
Actually, I don’t think that flexibility, swiftness and technique goes down the heavier the lifter is. It just adapts to the changing center of gravity and levers. As far as it comes to Chemerkin, I haven’t looked much at his technique (mostly since TV is almost always filming from the front), but he does have really crisp timings, like many other heavy lifters.
Of course, there is a possibility that I may be completely wrong, and if that can be proven, I am open to changing my opinion.
The takeaway lesson from me would be: Keep nailing 9 out of 10 lifts, and let the increase in strength (and weight) come on as a product of this. Train primarily to perfect technique and timing improvements, not to chase weights.[/quote]
The thing is though, I’ve seen guys who probably weighed 180-190, power clean 300+ lbs with completely shit technique simply because they were strong as fuck. They got strong on squats, deads, chins, etc., and maybe doing cleans once every few weeks. So all that is, is “general strength” Granted, if they had any semblance of technique they’d be able to pull a boatload more, but the point remains, they can clean something respectable simply because they are fucking strong as hell, all the while lacking tempo, timing, etc. On the other side, I’ve seen far too many weaklings with “good” technique who can’t clean 90kg. I guess my point is that I think it’s important to build a general strength base as well because it can be helpful. Probably more so if it’s done concurrently, while you master the technique on the lifts and gain the specific strength to do them by doing them.[/quote]
Yeah, I’ve seen some pretty strong guys power clean some pretty big weights with some pretty ugly form too. Thing is, I’m not convinced the strength those guys have translates over to a lift performed properly, and you’re going to plateau a helluva lot sooner if you’re muscling up the weight as opposed to actually learning and practicing good technique. The general strength these guys have doesn’t necessarily translate well into the specific and positional strength necessary to snatch and clean and jerk big weights. While I agree it’s good to have a general strength base (which I think most o-lifters in North America should have as it seems a good deal of them start o-lifting later in life and after transitioning from some other athletic endeavour), once you start training I don’t think it’s beneficial to your o-lifts to spend training time working on your general strength unless you have glaring weaknesses or imbalances.
All that being said, I think the best way to proceed is, if your goal is to become a good weightlifter, spend your time working on the strength that directly translates into the olympic lifts, as well as your technique. I believe those are really the 2 factors that will drive your lifts up, and so that’s where the focus should be, however you have to be careful of putting too much emphasis on one at the expense of the other. Kind of like how I think you shouldn’t be spending too much time working your weaknesses or working on specific positions (say, with lifts from the hang/blocks or whatnot) at the expense of the full lifts, and vice versa as well. For those of us who don’t have the time to train and recover like a pro athlete it can be a delicate balancing act.