T Nation

What Happened To:

The following post in the “How T-Mag Writers Build Their Bodies” article stirred up a few questions that were lingering in my mind:

[quote]bigjoey wrote:
Yuz don’t seem to make much mention of creatine. I looked to see if Biotest made a creatine product but couldn’t find one. Am I not looking hard enough? Is one in the works? What type do you guys recommend, if any?[/quote]

What happened to the following products:

  1. Ribose-C, Biotest’s old creatine/ribose liquid delivery system?

  2. Grow! that has crystalline fructose as a carb source instead of matlodextrin (this was one of the best things about Grow!–a low gly carb source)?

  3. Euphoria, a supplement that was in the works about two years ago that supposedly had recreational drug-like effects as a mood elevator?

  4. The superconcentrated EFA formula that was mentioned about one year ago?

Just curious.

~Terumo

[quote]Terumo wrote:
The following post in the “How T-Mag Writers Build Their Bodies” article stirred up a few questions that were lingering in my mind:

bigjoey wrote:
Yuz don’t seem to make much mention of creatine. I looked to see if Biotest made a creatine product but couldn’t find one. Am I not looking hard enough? Is one in the works? What type do you guys recommend, if any?

What happened to the following products:

  1. Ribose-C, Biotest’s old creatine/ribose liquid delivery system?

  2. Grow! that has crystalline fructose as a carb source instead of matlodextrin (this was one of the best things about Grow!–a low gly carb source)?

  3. Euphoria, a supplement that was in the works about two years ago that supposedly had recreational drug-like effects as a mood elevator?

  4. The superconcentrated EFA formula that was mentioned about one year ago?

Just curious.

~Terumo[/quote]

As far as creatine, we don’t generally do stuff that’s done before, unless we can improve on it hugely. We just haven’t thought much about creatine.

As far as Ribose-C, it was expensive to make, expensive to ship (because it was liquid), and not that many people bought it because they just flat out didn’t believe that a liquid creatine was possible, despite showing them lab assays.

Fine. We ditched it.

As far as fructose in Grow!, metabolism of fructose is rate limited by an enzyme. Too much–over about 16 grams, as I recall–and it turns into a no-no as far as storage and fat production. Besides, the current formula (and the next) is perfecto as far as glycemic index and blood sugar in general. Just because something has maltodextrin in it doesn’t mean that it’s not cool, GI-wise. Absorption rates have a lot to do with type and amount of protein, fiber, etc.

Euphoria was shelved because of a lack of interest.

The EFA product can be made quickly, but we just don’t know if Biotest buyers are willing to buy such a high-quality oil. It’s expensive, and when we do surveys about how much people would pay for something like a Biotest Protein Bar and they respond, “25 cents,” we have doubts about whether they’d shell out the amount it would cost for some really high quality pharmaceutical grade oil.

Hope that answers your questions.

[quote]Atomic Dog wrote:
As far as fructose in Grow!, metabolism of fructose is rate limited by an enzyme. Too much–over about 16 grams, as I recall–and it turns into a no-no as far as storage and fat production.[/quote]

I understand that fructose can potentially elevate triglyceride levels; however, it was my understanding that the threshold was closer to 30g. I believe the study that I read administered an effective dose of 60g daily, spread over two feedings, with minimal elevation in TG levels. However, I could be wrong–it has been over two years since I studied that.

[quote]
Atomic Dog wrote:
Besides, the current formula (and the next) is perfecto as far as glycemic index and blood sugar in general. Just because something has maltodextrin in it doesn’t mean that it’s not cool, GI-wise. Absorption rates have a lot to do with type and amount of protein, fiber, etc.[/quote]

So is that why you guys upped the amount of casein when you switched to maltodextrin–to delay gastric emptying? That would be plausible. Has anyone tested this with a glucometer? I trust you guys, but let me play with this a bit (purely hypothesis, but humor me):

Maltodextrin is cleaved not only by gut enzymes but also by salivary amylase. In the mouth, casein has not reacted with HCl, and thus it is not in its gelatinous form–the form which delays gastric emptying. Now, since maltodextrin is already cleaved into monomers before it reaches the stomach, that greatly decreases the molecular weight of the carbohydrates. Unlike the maltodextrin chain, the monomers are then capable of forming into a solution in the stomach, a feat that maltodextrin would not have acheived. This makes me wonder if the carbohydrates would actually be delayed in digestion along with the protein. Once again, just a curious mind…

[quote]
The EFA product can be made quickly, but we just don’t know if Biotest buyers are willing to buy such a high-quality oil.[/quote]

Have you guys given any information about the actual product other than that it is one badass EFA concoction? I don’t know about everyone else, but I am not going to say that I’ll shell out $49 for a product of which I have little-to-zero specs. T-Men like to do some research, think about things, weigh the cost effectiveness and priority of things,… We aren’t EAS sheeple, ya know? [I’m jus’ funnin’ ya!]

[quote]
Atomic Dog wrote:
It’s expensive, and when we do surveys about how much people would pay for something like a Biotest Protein Bar and they respond, “25 cents,” we have doubts about whether they’d shell out the amount it would cost for some really high quality pharmaceutical grade oil.[/quote]

Really? From what I recall, the majority of the responses for the (sing with me) “What Would Do-ooh-ooh… For a Grow! Bar” thread were in the $1.75 range. Yeah, that is cheap, but we were being greedy little monkeys and assuming that you would do direct sales on this item.

Thanks for the quick response, guys.

~Terumo

As far as the EFA supp goes, why don’t you survey and see if people would pay what you’d need to charge? I know quite a few of us have been waiting for a while for this one.

[quote]nephorm wrote:
As far as the EFA supp goes, why don’t you survey and see if people would pay what you’d need to charge? I know quite a few of us have been waiting for a while for this one.[/quote]

I agree. You can certainly count me in!

Along the same lines - whatever happened to Myostat? Lack of product interest?

I don’t know, guys…

I’d love a potent EFA too…but just a little reality check…

  1. Grow! went down to $23.00…and you STILL had hacks complaining that they could get their big bag of “Tub-O-Whey” for .39 cents per serving while Grow! was .40!..so they went with their “Tub-O-Whey” (not exact numbers…but you get the point…)

2)I can hear it now…“DAMN…I can get a bottle uh fish caps at Costco for blah, blah, blah…” (even though they have to take 30 caps a day with poor bioavailability, leading to “fish burps” all day and questionable benefits…)

Oh well…that’s Life…!

Mufasa

Mufasa, if they created an EFA supplement that’s as good as the rest of their supplements, I think there would be a huge market… I don’t know anyone who wouldn’t pay a little more to NOT have to use those crappy costco fish capsules.

Ugh…

I would love to have some high quality EFAs. My wallet is waiting…

[quote]lizard king wrote:
I would love to have some high quality EFAs. My wallet is waiting…[/quote]

Since Biotest doesn’t make any EFA supps, you might want to check out Udo’s Oil Blend. (google Udo’s oil and you’l find plenty of sources).

Personally, I like the capsules, but I hear that many people will add it to their yogurt or over salad.

For comments on the EFA formula, I created a new thread “Dear Biotest.”

~Terumo