T Nation

What Gains Did You Make

Just gonna ask these questions to see how people changed and how well\bad some cycles went.

What gains did you make when taking the steroid plunge?

What made you take that plunge?

What was the most gains (size\strength) you got out of a cycle?

What was your worst cycle?

How was your first cycle? Was it your best cycle?

Do you wish you waited longer\started sooner before your first cycle?

What weight\bf % were you at when you started your first cycle?

Feel free to answer any\none of them. I just started wondering how everyone’s cycles went, especially first cycles. RJ’s first cycle he said he had gained 35 lbs of LBM, so this is why I just wanted to see how everyone else did on their first cycle and future cycles. Not sure if this post is dumb, but I’ll find out right quick.

I was 29 when I first used MAG-10; hence my registration date. I was either 29 or 30 for my first usage of genuine gear. I had gotten to maybe 215lbs or so prior to MAG-10. I know I waited much longer than most. Which is also why you tend to see me not pushing it on those in their early twenties even.

It was also about this time [turning 30] I switched from bodybuilding routine to powerlifting. I benched 300lbs in high school at 185lbs. Twelve years later I still had not benched 400. I had gained about 30lbs in 12 years as well. To say I had maxed out my genetics was probably true.

Before I knew what I know now I did do a t-bol only run for 6 weeks. I know, I know. I was once ignorant too.

Best and worst cycle was the same cycle. 750TestEW 450DecaEW and 50dbol and proviron ED. Gains were good but after 8 weeks the Deca had gotten to me [that’s what makes it worst].

In hindsight yes I am probably in position to say I wish I had started earlier because honestly I made minimal progress from 25 to 30. I really do think I was extremely close to my genetic maxim. Changing my training did provide a stimulus as well of course.

Not sure that answers the questions but there you go.

[quote]sapasion wrote:
I benched 300lbs in high school at 185lbs. Twelve years later I still had not benched 400. I had gained about 30lbs in 12 years as well. To say I had maxed out my genetics was probably true.[/quote]

LOL

[quote]sapasion wrote:
I benched 300lbs in high school at 185lbs. Twelve years later I still had not benched 400. I had gained about 30lbs in 12 years as well. To say I had maxed out my genetics was probably true.[/quote]

…lol

[quote]sapasion wrote:
I benched 300lbs in high school at 185lbs. Twelve years later I still had not benched 400. I had gained about 30lbs in 12 years as well. To say I had maxed out my genetics was probably true.[/quote]

One last time!

[quote]sapasion wrote:
I benched 300lbs in high school at 185lbs. Twelve years later I still had not benched 400. I had gained about 30lbs in 12 years as well. To say I had maxed out my genetics was probably true.[/quote]

Ok, you did not reach your full potential, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. Weight gain is about excess calories, if you only gained 30lbs in 12 years thats because you didnt eat enough. If you cant put 100lbs on your bench in 12 years to go from 300-400 then try something fucking new. Holy shit, when you were gaining 3lbs a year did you never think to step up your eating and try a different bench program?

You did not reach anywhere near close to your genetic limit, you just didnt work hard enough. Steroids are not to make up for lack of effort naturally.

Just thought I would say that.

[quote]Mega Newb wrote:
sapasion wrote:
I benched 300lbs in high school at 185lbs. Twelve years later I still had not benched 400. I had gained about 30lbs in 12 years as well. To say I had maxed out my genetics was probably true.

LOL

sapasion wrote:
I benched 300lbs in high school at 185lbs. Twelve years later I still had not benched 400. I had gained about 30lbs in 12 years as well. To say I had maxed out my genetics was probably true.

…lol

sapasion wrote:
I benched 300lbs in high school at 185lbs. Twelve years later I still had not benched 400. I had gained about 30lbs in 12 years as well. To say I had maxed out my genetics was probably true.

One last time!

sapasion wrote:
I benched 300lbs in high school at 185lbs. Twelve years later I still had not benched 400. I had gained about 30lbs in 12 years as well. To say I had maxed out my genetics was probably true.

Ok, you did not reach your full potential, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. Weight gain is about excess calories, if you only gained 30lbs in 12 years thats because you didnt eat enough.

If you cant put 100lbs on your bench in 12 years to go from 300-400 then try something fucking new. Holy shit, when you were gaining 3lbs a year did you never think to step up your eating and try a different bench program?

You did not reach anywhere near close to your genetic limit, you just didnt work hard enough. Steroids are not to make up for lack of effort naturally.

Just thought I would say that.
[/quote]

You did say it, that’s for sure. I am going to bet that you will wish you had said it differently…

[quote]Mega Newb wrote:
You did not reach anywhere near close to your genetic limit, you just didnt work hard enough. Steroids are not to make up for lack of effort naturally.

Just thought I would say that.
[/quote]

Sure he could’ve gained by eating more and become obese in the process. There is a point of diminishing returns where you have to gain more and more fat in order eke out a little more muscle and strength.

This is the road you took. Not everyone’s goals are the same. Some people, myself included, prefer to stay close to single digit bf.

Have a little respect.

My bench hasn’t gone up a lb in the past year, I guess I too must be doing everything wrong and destined to fail like Sapasion and seek the easy way out. How could you say that Sapasion didn’t work hard enough? Do you know Sapasion intimately? Have you seen the man training? Like Dopa said, show respect. Weight gain IS about excess calories but like most of us here on the forum we are mostly interested in gaining lean muscle mass as weight not fat. I’m sure I can gain 50lbs this year eating like a fucking pig and end up looking, well simply fat and gross.

[quote]MrZsasz wrote:
Mega Newb wrote:
sapasion wrote:
I benched 300lbs in high school at 185lbs. Twelve years later I still had not benched 400. I had gained about 30lbs in 12 years as well. To say I had maxed out my genetics was probably true.

LOL

sapasion wrote:
I benched 300lbs in high school at 185lbs. Twelve years later I still had not benched 400. I had gained about 30lbs in 12 years as well. To say I had maxed out my genetics was probably true.

…lol

sapasion wrote:
I benched 300lbs in high school at 185lbs. Twelve years later I still had not benched 400. I had gained about 30lbs in 12 years as well. To say I had maxed out my genetics was probably true.

One last time!

sapasion wrote:
I benched 300lbs in high school at 185lbs. Twelve years later I still had not benched 400. I had gained about 30lbs in 12 years as well. To say I had maxed out my genetics was probably true.

Ok, you did not reach your full potential, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. Weight gain is about excess calories, if you only gained 30lbs in 12 years thats because you didnt eat enough. If you cant put 100lbs on your bench in 12 years to go from 300-400 then try something fucking new. Holy shit, when you were gaining 3lbs a year did you never think to step up your eating and try a different bench program?

You did not reach anywhere near close to your genetic limit, you just didnt work hard enough. Steroids are not to make up for lack of effort naturally.

Just thought I would say that.

You did say it, that’s for sure. I am going to bet that you will wish you had said it differently…[/quote]

Yeah it would have been easier to just quote him once and say (… NO)

[quote]Dopamineloveaffa wrote:
Mega Newb wrote:
You did not reach anywhere near close to your genetic limit, you just didnt work hard enough. Steroids are not to make up for lack of effort naturally.

Just thought I would say that.

Sure he could’ve gained by eating more and become obese in the process. There is a point of diminishing returns where you have to gain more and more fat in order eke out a little more muscle and strength.

This is the road you took. Not everyone’s goals are the same. Some people, myself included, prefer to stay close to single digit bf.

Have a little respect.[/quote]

In 12 years not only could he have bulked 200lbs, but cut 200lbs aswell. So any fat gain wouldnt have mattered.

Do I know him personally? Yes, when someone tells me they gained 30lbs in 12 years and I know everything I need to know about their training/diet.

I have been lifting for 3 years, and could diet for a year and be completely lean, you do the math for how much better progress that is. And dont play the “goal” card when he have the same goals as me (to be big and strong).

The thing you forget is he didnt have to become obese to make better gains. And if you aren’t willing to go over single digit body fat to put on more than 3lbs of weight a year to your body weight then you shouldn’t be taking steroids anyway.

Respect? I have respect for everyone, until they say or do stupid shit.

[quote]Growing_Boy wrote:
My bench hasn’t gone up a lb in the past year, I guess I too must be doing everything wrong and destined to fail like Sapasion and seek the easy way out. How could you say that Sapasion didn’t work hard enough? Do you know Sapasion intimately? Have you seen the man training? Like Dopa said, show respect. Weight gain IS about excess calories but like most of us here on the forum we are mostly interested in gaining lean muscle mass as weight not fat. I’m sure I can gain 50lbs this year eating like a fucking pig and end up looking, well simply fat and gross. [/quote]

Whats that, you dont want to gain fat, but you want to get big and strong? Well fuck you.

I hate people like you. Way to prove my point about people who wont do what it takes to gain naturall, who use steroids to make up for their lack of effort.

Im done arguing with you guys, its a impossible argument to win for me because the person your arguing with has to be a thinking person.

Respect? Wise up and Il respect you.

I don’t want to turn this into a flame fest, so please keep the comments to yourself for now. Would like to keep a forum on topic for once.

[quote]Mega Newb wrote:
Ok, you did not reach your full potential, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. Weight gain is about excess calories, if you only gained 30lbs in 12 years thats because you didnt eat enough. If you cant put 100lbs on your bench in 12 years to go from 300-400 then try something fucking new. Holy shit, when you were gaining 3lbs a year did you never think to step up your eating and try a different bench program?

You did not reach anywhere near close to your genetic limit, you just didnt work hard enough. Steroids are not to make up for lack of effort naturally.

Just thought I would say that.

[/quote]
Well yes and no and I think you almost missed the point I was making because we almost argued the same point from different angles. Doing bodybuilding type routines I was able to add mass and size and whatever else bodybuilders care about. Its true no one cares what you can bench when you are posing on stage. Its all about show not go. When you’re doing 5 sets of 10-12 you max tends not to improve at an accelerated rate. As I approached 30 I realized I was never actually going to put on my speedo and oil up and pose. So I switched my focus from BB to PL. Changing my training did absolutely make a difference and I’m sure its true had I switched to PLing before 30 I would not have had the 12 year wait from 300 to 400.

There’s a pretty stark difference between BB and PL. I have been off gear since last summer and I am just as strong if not stronger now than I was last year after a TestDecaDbol cycle. So yes by all means since I changed my training goals and approach I have continued to progress naturally. Here’s the thing again I attribute to the difference between BB and PL. My arms and legs are about the same size as they were say two years ago. However, the strength in those arms and legs has increased measureably. BB’s basically measure progress in size, inches and appearence. As a PL its all about lift numbers. I will attest that yes since changing training again I do still continue to improve naturally and yes from a strength point of view I maybe have yet to hit my genetic ceiling. But from a size point of view my 650x1 squatting thighs are the same size as they were years ago when I was doing 315x10-12. A lot depends on how and what you choose to measure.

Uber…sap is a pretty respected member around here…don’t flame to much in this forum.

[quote]sapasion wrote:
Mega Newb wrote:
Ok, you did not reach your full potential, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. Weight gain is about excess calories, if you only gained 30lbs in 12 years thats because you didnt eat enough. If you cant put 100lbs on your bench in 12 years to go from 300-400 then try something fucking new. Holy shit, when you were gaining 3lbs a year did you never think to step up your eating and try a different bench program?

You did not reach anywhere near close to your genetic limit, you just didnt work hard enough. Steroids are not to make up for lack of effort naturally.

Just thought I would say that.

Well yes and no and I think you almost missed the point I was making because we almost argued the same point from different angles. Doing bodybuilding type routines I was able to add mass and size and whatever else bodybuilders care about. Its true no one cares what you can bench when you are posing on stage. Its all about show not go. When you’re doing 5 sets of 10-12 you max tends not to improve at an accelerated rate. As I approached 30 I realized I was never actually going to put on my speedo and oil up and pose. So I switched my focus from BB to PL. Changing my training did absolutely make a difference and I’m sure its true had I switched to PLing before 30 I would not have had the 12 year wait from 300 to 400.

There’s a pretty stark difference between BB and PL. I have been off gear since last summer and I am just as strong if not stronger now than I was last year after a TestDecaDbol cycle. So yes by all means since I changed my training goals and approach I have continued to progress naturally. Here’s the thing again I attribute to the difference between BB and PL. My arms and legs are about the same size as they were say two years ago. However, the strength in those arms and legs has increased measureably. BB’s basically measure progress in size, inches and appearence. As a PL its all about lift numbers. I will attest that yes since changing training again I do still continue to improve naturally and yes from a strength point of view I maybe have yet to hit my genetic ceiling. But from a size point of view my 650x1 squatting thighs are the same size as they were years ago when I was doing 315x10-12. A lot depends on how and what you choose to measure.
[/quote]

Ahh shit now you had to go and make me feel like an asshole…

Alright man, fine, it was a little messed up to call you out like that. I dont care what anyone does, I have just heard the natural limit card being pulled by so many small and weak people it makes me ill to hear it. We are talking people who barley train and probably dont train back or legs.

I probably shouldnt have posted, sorry.

Nice squat… hopefully you will continue to get bigger as your lifts go up and you will be able to reach both your goals.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

How keepable are gains made off of AAS cycles? if I’ll probably want to be a bit bigger than my genetics allow me, but I wont want to have to be “on” more than 2-3 times or for that long at all. Mainly due to cost.

Say I lifted hard and ate well for 5-6 years peaked at around 230 with low bodyfat and then did a cycle when I was 22-23. Given proper post cycle therapy, would it be reasonable to expect to keep most of the gains off that beginner’s cycle given that my training is still intense and I am still keeping proper nutritional habits?

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Mega Newb wrote:
You did not reach anywhere near close to your genetic limit, you just didnt work hard enough. Steroids are not to make up for lack of effort naturally.

Just thought I would say that.

Being an abusive wanker doesn’t make you seem wise.

Just thought I would say that.

You have no idea of the guys’ pre-steroid natural hormone levels, body type, nervous system or metabolism, so before you come in here shooting your mouth off, you might pause to consider that at 6’2" and 320 lbs, not everybody is like you when it comes to putting on muscle (or fat?).

Also, since you have no idea how hard this guy trains, how dare you preach like that.

Bushy[/quote]

He benched 300 at 180 in high school, his hormones are fine, everyone has excuses. So cut the shit, this inst excuse-nation.

Who do you think I am? Im not your cousin or your friend or some dipshit that doesnt know what he is talking about. I have put in my share of hard work and made gains, suffered through shit that none of you would to achieve what I have.

And I have seen people half ass and made shitty gains in the same time frame that I have been training. I know what people are capable of and I know what they arent. There are exceptions to the rule but this is not one of them.

He said him self that as soon as he changed his style of training his lifts went way up, he said that his legs didnt grow from going from a 315x12 squat up to a 650 squat (which Im sure they did somewhat). And he said he is making gains naturally now (which completely proves my point).

I was right about what I said, could I have put it nicer? Yeah, but I dont have to. It might make me a asshole to get annoyed at this but it but it would make all of T-Nation assholes to get annoyed at squat rack curlers or the 100lb guys who make rate my physique threads.

If I offended anyone, suck it up. Or go some where else where people will suck your cock and whisper sweet things in your ear while you tell them about your excuses and how that mean mega newb guy said you weren’t trying hard enough.

If being a asshole, who is right, is my crime. Then I can live with it.

Mega Newb…6’2" and 320 is literally impossible to attain and remain lean without massive amounts of gear and growth. so…since your profile says that you are indeed that size, and also says you’re only 17 years old…

we must throw out the gear assumption, and assume you are a big fat fuck who lifts. for some big and strong is great, but people who wish to bodybuild for aesthetics and size at the same time don’t wish to follow your path…looking like baby huey.

your numbers in your profile are also tough to believe for a natural lifter who is 17 and only lifting 3 years. i’m sure most would concur with me.

so chill out on the flaming and bullshit posts kid, because you can easily be the focus of similar personal abuse, as seen above.

get it?

and now…back to the original topic please folks

[quote]Mega Newb wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
Mega Newb wrote:
You did not reach anywhere near close to your genetic limit, you just didnt work hard enough. Steroids are not to make up for lack of effort naturally.

Just thought I would say that.

Being an abusive wanker doesn’t make you seem wise.

Just thought I would say that.

You have no idea of the guys’ pre-steroid natural hormone levels, body type, nervous system or metabolism, so before you come in here shooting your mouth off, you might pause to consider that at 6’2" and 320 lbs, not everybody is like you when it comes to putting on muscle (or fat?).

Also, since you have no idea how hard this guy trains, how dare you preach like that.

Bushy

He benched 300 at 180 in high school, his hormones are fine, everyone has excuses. So cut the shit, this inst excuse-nation.

Who do you think I am? Im not your cousin or your friend or some dipshit that doesnt know what he is talking about. I have put in my share of hard work and made gains, suffered through shit that none of you would to achieve what I have.

And I have seen people half ass and made shitty gains in the same time frame that I have been training. I know what people are capable of and I know what they arent. There are exceptions to the rule but this is not one of them.

He said him self that as soon as he changed his style of training his lifts went way up, he said that his legs didnt grow from going from a 315x12 squat up to a 650 squat (which Im sure they did somewhat). And he said he is making gains naturally now (which completely proves my point).

I was right about what I said, could I have put it nicer? Yeah, but I dont have to. It might make me a asshole to get annoyed at this but it but it would make all of T-Nation assholes to get annoyed at squat rack curlers or the 100lb guys who make rate my physique threads.

If I offended anyone, suck it up. Or go some where else where people will suck your cock and whisper sweet things in your ear while you tell them about your excuses and how that mean mega newb guy said you weren’t trying hard enough.

If being a asshole, who is right, is my crime. Then I can live with it.
[/quote]

I think your posts in this thread have answered the question about whether you’re ready for gear. You do not even possess the maturity to post your thoughts without getting all pissy, so steroids are out of the question.

[quote]juice20jd wrote:
Mega Newb…6’2" and 320 is literally impossible to attain and remain lean without massive amounts of gear and growth. so…since your profile says that you are indeed that size, and also says you’re only 17 years old…

we must throw out the gear assumption, and assume you are a big fat fuck who lifts. for some big and strong is great, but people who wish to bodybuild for aesthetics and size at the same time don’t wish to follow your path…looking like baby huey.

your numbers in your profile are also tough to believe for a natural lifter who is 17 and only lifting 3 years. i’m sure most would concur with me.

so chill out on the flaming and bullshit posts kid, because you can easily be the focus of similar personal abuse, as seen above.

get it?

and now…back to the original topic please folks

[/quote]

You think I seriously care if you, or anyone else doesnt think Im natural? I have had that shit so much I see it as a compliment now.

Dont make me laugh, there is nothing that YOU or anyone else who has posted can say to insult me. Im used to being called fat by douche bags online who are way older, been training way longer, and way weaker and smaller than me, being unnatural just makes it that much better. So your not gonna offend me.