What Ever Happened to Mike Ashley?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
slimthugger wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
Perhaps he lost all of his blood from being “continuosly drug tested.”

Seriously, the guy used to buy ads in the muscle magazines touting that he was “continuously drug tested.”

It was kind of weird.

If he didn’t use drugs, why the hell was he spending the money for all these tests? Didn’t he already know he was drug free (if he was)?

Were the continuous tests to impress other people? But who had any interest in the tests? I really don’t think anyone gave a flip, actually.

I always had the impression that it was snake-oil-salesman type gimmick.

You can’t be serious. It is 2008, almost 2009. This guy hasn’t competed since the early 90’s and people are still calling him out on it. I would say some gave and still give “a flip”. What is strange about getting drug tested when he claimed openly that he was drug free?

As far as whether he is or not, he was literally huge in high school. His dad had the exact same jaw structure and basic build in old family photos. You can’t deny genetics and hard work.

Sounds like you spent some quality time with the fam. Can you upload those pics?

You think I have every picture ever posted in a magazine on my computer just for when jackasses question a certain bodybuilder?

This guy hasn’t competed in over a decade. I won’t be searching through years of mags just because you don’t believe it.[/quote]

That reminds me, I wish I kept all my old mags.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
slimthugger wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
Perhaps he lost all of his blood from being “continuosly drug tested.”

Seriously, the guy used to buy ads in the muscle magazines touting that he was “continuously drug tested.”

It was kind of weird.

If he didn’t use drugs, why the hell was he spending the money for all these tests? Didn’t he already know he was drug free (if he was)?

Were the continuous tests to impress other people? But who had any interest in the tests? I really don’t think anyone gave a flip, actually.

I always had the impression that it was snake-oil-salesman type gimmick.

You can’t be serious. It is 2008, almost 2009. This guy hasn’t competed since the early 90’s and people are still calling him out on it. I would say some gave and still give “a flip”. What is strange about getting drug tested when he claimed openly that he was drug free?

As far as whether he is or not, he was literally huge in high school. His dad had the exact same jaw structure and basic build in old family photos. You can’t deny genetics and hard work.

Sounds like you spent some quality time with the fam. Can you upload those pics?

You think I have every picture ever posted in a magazine on my computer just for when jackasses question a certain bodybuilder?

This guy hasn’t competed in over a decade. I won’t be searching through years of mags just because you don’t believe it.[/quote]

That reminds me, I wish I kept all my old mags. (bodybuilding mags that is)

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
Perhaps he lost all of his blood from being “continuosly drug tested.”

Seriously, the guy used to buy ads in the muscle magazines touting that he was “continuously drug tested.”

It was kind of weird.

If he didn’t use drugs, why the hell was he spending the money for all these tests? Didn’t he already know he was drug free (if he was)?

Were the continuous tests to impress other people? But who had any interest in the tests? I really don’t think anyone gave a flip, actually.

I always had the impression that it was snake-oil-salesman type gimmick.

You can’t be serious. It is 2008, almost 2009. This guy hasn’t competed since the early 90’s and people are still calling him out on it. I would say some gave and still give “a flip”. What is strange about getting drug tested when he claimed openly that he was drug free?

As far as whether he is or not, he was literally huge in high school. His dad had the exact same jaw structure and basic build in old family photos. You can’t deny genetics and hard work.[/quote]

You don’t think it’s strange to pay to be “continuously drug tested” when no one is requiring it of you, AND furthmore to pay for huge numbers of magazine ads announcing the fact?

I’m sure you’ve heard the expression “Methinks the lady doth protest too much.” There’s a reason for the saying. A whole lot of times when people just go way, way, WAY overboard in announcing their innocence far and wide, to hill and dale, with megaphone and sound truck and everything else – and especially when few even care about the subject and there is no prosecution or anything going on – it ain’t because they’re innocent. Oh, maybe some tiny percent are and are just compulsive. But most of the time this sort of behavior is a true tip-off.

As for the fact that it’s 2008 and this was a while back, what can I say, for some things I have a good memory and his doing the above struck me as really weird at the time. And the speculation that perhaps what happened to him was that he lost all of his blood from his “continuous” testing needed explanation, probably, for those not knowing of his vast number of purchased advertisements announcing that fact.

Lastly as for your saying, with respect to whether he was drug free, “You can’t deny genetics and hard work” I don’t get the point.

Surely you are not saying that drug users who are successful in bodybuilding DON’T have genetics and don’t work hard?

If you are not, then his having genetics and working hard says nothing about whether drug use occurred.

I wouldn’t have ever given 1/4 of one second of thought or care to whether the guy used drugs, if not for seeing his absurd ads month after month announcing his “continuous drug testing.” Man, what a way to live… “Gotta prove today I’m drug free! Can’t let a day go by, people might think I used since the last test! Gotta have a thick file with no time gaps, no sir! Continuous testing, that’s the only way, gotta be continuously documented!”

If he was drug free, he couldn’t have picked a better way, while denying it, to create the opposite impression from protesting too much.

I don’t think anyone in the history of bb’ing ever made so much noise over being drug-free as he did.

That doesn’t stand out in any way?

Besides all that, it was stupid. Any steroid user knowing what he was doing and arranging his own testing could easily have tests done that to most people would seem to show being natural, but in fact allow undetected use. What was the actual value of all those tests he had done towards proving anything? Absolutely flat zero.

And either he was dumb as a brick, which I bet he was not, or he knew that but went through the charade anyway, with absolutely no one and nothing driving him to it but himself.

It was just flat weird.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:

You don’t think it’s strange to pay to be “continually drug tested” when no one is requiring it of you, AND furthmore to pay for huge numbers of magazine ads announcing the fact?[/quote]

I have mags going all of the way back to 1987 and I don’t remember all of these ads you keep talking about where he was continually tested. I remember one that got repeated ad nauseum especially when he was speaking on his use of MTC oil in his diet.

[quote]
Lastly as for your saying, with respect to whether he was drug free, “You can’t deny genetics and hard work” I don’t get the point.[/quote]

The point is the guy who started this thread seems to be on a one man mission to only discuss his dislike of steroids on this forum in as many ways as possible. That is the only reason he even found Mike Ashley’s name on a google search. He happens to be the type who thinks these guy’s accomplishments should be downplayed based on whether they ever used anabolics or not. That is what that statement is referring to.

[quote]
I don’t think anyone in the history of bb’ing ever made so much noise over being drug-free as he did.

That doesn’t stand out in any way?[/quote]

Apparently, to you it did. I was a kid at the time so you were clearly much more irritated than I was.

I wasn’t irritated, I just thought it was weird and flat stupid.

And yes, he did have those ads every month for at least several years in a row. I believe they were in Muscle Mag Illustrated, but it’s possible they were in Ironman.

[quote]The point is the guy who started this thread seems to be on a one man mission to only discuss his dislike of steroids on this forum in as many ways as possible. That is the only reason he even found Mike Ashley’s name on a google search. He happens to be the type who thinks these guy’s accomplishments should be downplayed based on whether they ever used anabolics or not. That is what that statement is referring to.
[/quote]

Ah. Now I understand – it makes perfect sense in that context and I agree.

And from the context of the above being the reason for Mike Ashley being brought up, if so then I see your point on that as well.

I’m just as impressed with his physique and accomplishments whether he used or not. Round up 1000 guys in the gym and let them all use a shipload of steroids, and chances are not one will wind up competitive with Mike Ashley.

He could very well have been natural. I am not sure at what weight he competed, but it seems to me he would be about 200 lbs, perhaps even 190 in contest shape. A weight that is quite attainable for a natural. His “big look” is due to his round muscle bellies and small bone structure. Again like I said before, bodybuilding is not about numbers.

[quote]slimthugger wrote:
He was a self proclaimed natural. Anyone buying it?[/quote]

HOLY tapdancing christ. I was just about to mock you by saying something like… “BUT, could he have done it without steroids,” and then you went and did it all for me. Hats off to you, sir.

Bill

I don’t recall those ads you speak of, but I’ll assume they existed.

In Ashley’s defense, think of what pro bodybuilding was becoming through the 80s and early 90s. Everyone had an angle. Platz with the legs… etc. Ashley probably felt the need to run the tests and subsequent ads as a means to separate himself from the others as far as promotion goes. Staying natural and proving it was his angle.

Look at it this way: Every potato chip comes in a bag, then Pringles® comes along with chips stacked in a tall can. They may not be the best tasting chip, but the novelty of the packaging attracted the public into buying tons of 'em.

I have no clue whether he was assisted or not, but seriously… Anyone building an outstanding natural physique (like, eh, above 180 at 5’10 lol) will be accused of using… You can’t be a natural bodybuilder and also have filled out your frame at the same time, it seems. People just won’t believe it.

I agree with Iron Dwarf… The guy just found a way to make profit off his claimed(and tested) drug status by making himself look all new and shiny.

And who on earth cares if he was drug-free or not.

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
I have no clue whether he was assisted or not, but seriously… Anyone building an outstanding natural physique (like, eh, above 180 at 5’10 lol) will be accused of using… You can’t be a natural bodybuilder and also have filled out your frame at the same time, it seems. People just won’t believe it.

I agree with Iron Dwarf… The guy just found a way to make profit off his claimed(and tested) drug status by making himself look all new and shiny.

And who on earth cares if he was drug-free or not.
[/quote]

Exactly. If they aren’t accusing you of it, then you simply aren’t very good at this. That is the bottom line. People are going to believe what they want regardless. If you are carrying more than 220 relatively lean pounds at average height, simply assume most people are going to think you are on something.

The only people this truly matters to are small lifters who blame the fact that they have made no progress on everyone else using drugs.

Whether he made more money in his career from all this announcing how he was “continuously drug tested” than had he not done so is probably known only to him and his accountant. If he did make more money from announcing his innocence so very much, then he was smart to do it because it is a business.

Even so, that kind of thing I think can backfire. Not that the comparison is an ideal one because Ashley succeeded much better in his sport than the fellow I’m about to mention, but still along the same lines:

Reader’s Digest a while back ran an article on this baseball player who just never could quite make it – oh he tried so hard but somehow he always stayed at the lower levels: either never quite made Triple A or if he did it was a brief visit, don’t remember.

Oh, but you see, he didn’t use steroids! And he was so proud of this fact and everyone who knew him was so proud of it. Sure, he could have taken the easy route and cheated, but not him, so he never quite made it.

This of course is pathetic.

Making big noise of not using drugs has a way of sounding like an excuse for why you don’t place higher, or like you’re out to cast aspersions on those who did do better than you.

There’s just no way to help it: it sounds that way. And the more noise someone makes of it, the more it sounds that way.

But as you say, Iron Dwarf, if it did bring him more income, then there is no reason he and his family should have had less just for the sake of not sounding that way. I don’t know if it succeeded for him financially as opposed to how everyone else that is drug-free handles themselves (they don’t go get “continuously drug tested” and buy ads announcing it) but who knows maybe it did.

Actually I really brought it up only because the speculation, on the question of what happened to him, was that maybe he overdid the “continuous” testing and ran out of blood amused me, and I knew most would have no idea what the context was. That was where my interest was, just in a one-liner, not really in anything else. Hadn’t remembered the guy in who knows how long, at least 10 years.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Actually I really brought it up only because the speculation, on the question of what happened to him, was that maybe he overdid the “continuous” testing and ran out of blood amused me, and I knew most would have no idea what the context was. That was where my interest was, just in a one-liner, not really in anything else. Hadn’t remembered the guy in who knows how long, at least 10 years.[/quote]

Or maybe his bodytype just ran its course in the judges’ eyes as the 90s produced such an impressive line-up of larger, more proportionately muscled men. All the “all-natural” promo in the world won’t fix a not-quite-perfect physique.
Ashley had his day.

Kind of taking a tangent here, though it is related.

I truly doubt it will happen, but it seems to me it would be good to have at least some bb’ing contests of importance that have two or three “weight for height” classes.

The term BMI has a poisoned image in bb’ing so it should not be used. It isn’t necessary anyway: simple weight-for-height would be good enough.

So say for example a given weight class has it that if you’re 6 feet even for example the weight limit is 210 lb. And there’s an allowance of 6 lb per inch different than that. Therefore someone who is 6’3" can weigh 228 and still make the class, while someone who is 5’7" needs to be 180.

And you have a couple of classes besides the unlimited class.

Simple weight classes don’t work that well; height classes are even poorer.

Not having classes of this sort is like boxing would be if we just said “Ah heck with classes, that is too complicated, everybody fight everybody.” You’d wind up with one sort of winner in top level competition: the heavyweights.

Whereas in fact competition among the less-massive men is also interesting.

Personally I liked Ashley’s physique. Of course a matchup between him and say Dorian Yates would be ridiculous. But does that mean there should not be important competitions that Ashley could win on fairly even grounds?

I’d expect that the contests would be just as interesting as any other.

It would also end the nonsense about whining about other guys using drugs. If you’re in a 190-at-your-height class and are in fact 190, then how are you supposedly at a handicap for not having used steroids?

What? “Oh those guys came in harder because they cheated.” I guess we would be hearing that.

Ah, forget the whole deal. :slight_smile:

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Kind of taking a tangent here, though it is related.

I truly doubt it will happen, but it seems to me it would be good to have at least some bb’ing contests of importance that have two or three “weight for height” classes.

The term BMI has a poisoned image in bb’ing so it should not be used. It isn’t necessary anyway: simple weight-for-height would be good enough.

So say for example a given weight class has it that if you’re 6 feet even for example the weight limit is 210 lb. And there’s an allowance of 6 lb per inch different than that. Therefore someone who is 6’3" can weigh 228 and still make the class, while someone who is 5’7" needs to be 180.

And you have a couple of classes besides the unlimited class.

Simple weight classes don’t work that well; height classes are even poorer.

Not having classes of this sort is like boxing would be if we just said “Ah heck with classes, that is too complicated, everybody fight everybody.” You’d wind up with one sort of winner in top level competition: the heavyweights.

Whereas in fact competition among the less-massive men is also interesting.

Personally I liked Ashley’s physique. Of course a matchup between him and say Dorian Yates would be ridiculous. But does that mean there should not be important competitions that Ashley could win on fairly even grounds?

I’d expect that the contests would be just as interesting as any other.

It would also end the nonsense about whining about other guys using drugs. If you’re in a 190-at-your-height class and are in fact 190, then how are you supposedly at a handicap for not having used steroids?

What? “Oh those guys came in harder because they cheated.” I guess we would be hearing that.

Ah, forget the whole deal. :slight_smile:

[/quote]

There is a 202lbs class for the Olympia now. That is where Lee Priest and David Henry will fall in next year.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Kind of taking a tangent here, though it is related.

I truly doubt it will happen, but it seems to me it would be good to have at least some bb’ing contests of importance that have two or three “weight for height” classes.

The term BMI has a poisoned image in bb’ing so it should not be used. It isn’t necessary anyway: simple weight-for-height would be good enough.

So say for example a given weight class has it that if you’re 6 feet even for example the weight limit is 210 lb. And there’s an allowance of 6 lb per inch different than that. Therefore someone who is 6’3" can weigh 228 and still make the class, while someone who is 5’7" needs to be 180.

And you have a couple of classes besides the unlimited class.

Simple weight classes don’t work that well; height classes are even poorer.

Not having classes of this sort is like boxing would be if we just said “Ah heck with classes, that is too complicated, everybody fight everybody.” You’d wind up with one sort of winner in top level competition: the heavyweights.

Whereas in fact competition among the less-massive men is also interesting.

Personally I liked Ashley’s physique. Of course a matchup between him and say Dorian Yates would be ridiculous. But does that mean there should not be important competitions that Ashley could win on fairly even grounds?

I’d expect that the contests would be just as interesting as any other.

It would also end the nonsense about whining about other guys using drugs. If you’re in a 190-at-your-height class and are in fact 190, then how are you supposedly at a handicap for not having used steroids?

What? “Oh those guys came in harder because they cheated.” I guess we would be hearing that.

Ah, forget the whole deal. :slight_smile:

[/quote]

I see your point here… That would also take care (to some extent) of morons coming into competition as near-skeletons just for the experience…

Considering someone who is 6’6 280 the same class as someone who is 5’11 280 in competition is rather idiotic and makes competing hard for the tall guy unless he really bulks up for 10 years straight… Probably with anabolic help… And ends up at 360 or something in contest shape :slight_smile:

But I think if it were easy to pull off, then we’d already have such a system in place? Going by lb of lbm (or just weight in general)/inch of height sounds like a neat idea to me…

As for non-bb relevance: BMI and straight weight will never be replaced because then whole industries and long-standing (bs) recommendations would have to change drastically. Most people don’t like change, unless it’s a positive change happening in their bank account.

Sure, BMI will continue in other applications. I just meant that it seems to me anything based on BMI, as BMI, is dead-on-arrival in bodybuilding.

As for a simple weight class such as the 202, if guys are close to average in height then that works fine. But it’s comparing totally different, and non-comparable, builds when the heights are quite different.

My suggestion is have something like the 202, but with that being the weight at a fairly average height, with the cutoff weight varying according to height in such a way that similar build-types are being compared.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Sure, BMI will continue in other applications. I just meant that it seems to me anything based on BMI, as BMI, is dead-on-arrival in bodybuilding.

As for a simple weight class, if guys are close to average in height then that works fine. But it’s comparing totally different, and non-comparable, builds when the heights are quite different.[/quote]

On some level I agree, but the taller guys like Freeman and Taylor would still have to fill out to look the way they do now (both above 300lbs in contest shape).

Freeman just never stood out until he went ahead and gained another 30lbs. Now he’s winning everything.

The look of what wins won’t change based on height.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:

The point is the guy who started this thread seems to be on a one man mission to only discuss his dislike of steroids on this forum in as many ways as possible. That is the only reason he even found Mike Ashley’s name on a google search. He happens to be the type who thinks these guy’s accomplishments should be downplayed based on whether they ever used anabolics or not. That is what that statement is referring to.

[/quote]

Not true, Mike Ashley was actually one of my early inspirations for getting into lifting back in the day. When I first began reading mags back then, I believed what I read.