T Nation

What Else to Include In This Split?


Alright i had to stop studying because i was so frustrated with this whole thing and read "How to design a damn good program" for the 10th time and this is what i came up with. I chose the Antagonist patter...

.Chest------------->Bench press, db incline bench press, machine chest press
.Back & rear delts->T-bar rows, lat pulldowns, machine rear delt


.Biceps------------>Ez-bar curls, hammer curls, machine curls
.Triceps----------->Dips, close grip bench press, tricep extension machine

.Quadriceps-------->Barbell Squat, leg press, leg extensions
.Hamstrings-------->Romanian deadlift, good morning, reverse leg curls

(Friday) off

.Front/Side deltoids->Military press, arnold press, front raise.

(Sunday) off

Now i dont see how this can be wrong since all this is based according to what that article says. I'll be performing 3 exercises per muscle with 3-4 sets. However im a little unclear about the rear deltoids, should i do 3 exercises for it or just that one...machine rear delt? Also, they left out calves and abs, common sense tells me i should do calves with quads and abs with...i dunno. And why does this program lets you work same muscle groups once a week when theres folks around here saying that they need to be worked twice a week?
SHIT...DAMN this better be right or ill cry little little school girl and pull out all my hair.


Personally I'd put shoulders with Triceps and Chest and Abs with Back and biceps.

But honestly I might agree with Scott, at this point you really shouldn't be trying to write your own programs and would probably be better off just following one of the programs found on this site.

EDT isn't my favorite program personally (though I have done programs based on progression by density), but yeah, it might be best for you to just follow a program for a few months, get your nutrition down and stop obsessing over building your traps, forearms, and triceps.

When you stop making progress on EDT try something else. Really any balanced program that allows you to continually make progress (weight on the bar or more reps with the same weight) combined with a good diet and sufficient rest is going to give you results.

Constantly overanalyzing and obsessing about working a couple of muscles isn't doing you any good however. Just do as Scott said, pick an already written out program (that is written by a professional), follow it, get your diet in order and learn as much as you can from it. Since he mentioned EDT, and since EDT is a fairly simple program that basically forces you to continually progress, why don't you just go with that.

When you plateau, come back here, post your results, post your diet and then if you want perhaps we can write you out a program. You'll have proven your willingness to take advice, and that you are serious about making progress.

I know that this may not be what you want to hear, and I am tempted to write you out a program, but Scott's right, giving you yet another option to choose from isn't really helping. There are already so many conflicting pieces of advice out there, and programs with what seem like complete opposite protocols that posting a program for you is just going to compound the problem.

Good luck.


Damner, that sounds fine. I made my other post before you posted this, so forget what I said about following EDT (for now).

Follow the above program, learn how to get your diet in order (I'd second Scott's advice to read "Massive eating" both the original series and re-loaded series).

As for your questions, the rear delts are going to get hit with all your pulling exercises, so they should grow just fine with those and the one isolation exercise. Calves do get worked to some degree from doing standing exercises like squats and even things like military press. No, they won't reach their potential in most cases unless you directly target them, but at your point in development, you're really better off following a program like the one above which focuses on the basics.

Abs really don't need direct work in most cases (at least in my experience), as they aren't really a muscle group that you want to get hyooge, and get plenty of work in exercises like Squats, military, really any exercise where load is placed on the spine.

One final piece of advice, T-bar rows are a fine exercise, but since it's obvious from this and a previous thread that you want to work on your traps and forearms, why not do Deadlifts instead? That really won't alter your template and will take care of your "lagging" body parts at the same time.

Good luck.


Well im definetly glad to hear that that works. I'm already doing Romanian deadlift and good morning so wouldnt i be overtraining my lower back if i do deadlifts for upper back on a different day?. What i was thinking about though was what if i replaced the arnold press with upright rows which i heard is a very good trap exercise.As for the calves, if im going to work my whole body id rather incorporate calves hahaha. Dont want no chicken legs, so is it fine if i do them on leg day?
It just came to me that i cant work out on the weekends ...damn, what happens if i switch shoulder day with any other off weekday?
Again ppl thanks for all the assistance, i feel like im going somewhere now.


Shouldn't be a problem to do deads on Chest/Back day. You've got around 72 hours between that workout and the Quads/Hams workout. Especially at this stage in the game, I don't think you need to worry about lifting heavy enough weights that your lower back will still be sore 72 hours later. And, if you are still too sore, then I'd suggest switching either the Romanians or GM's to a different hamstring exercise (say sumo leg press) as deadlifts really are that good of an exercise. You can of course also replace the Arnold Presses with upright rows if you choose to.

And yes, it's fine to add calves to the Quads/Hams day.

As far as not being able to do the shoulder day on the weekend, you probably wouldn't have any problems doing them on Friday, or even combining the arms and shoulders days.

Hope this helps. Now get in the gym (and the kitchen) and bust your ass.


If you don't have 30 minutes of time, ever life just ain't worth living.