what do you vets think about

From the Desk of Raybravo


a) The ability of an androgen to aromatise, which may seem like a very undesirable effect at first, upon close observation, shows us how useful this property of an androgen can actually be in a study (1) where the effects of testosterone and stanozolol were compared for their effects on stimulating GH release. Testosterone enanthate (only 3 mg per kg per week) increased GH levels by 22% and IGF-1 levels by 21% whereas oral stanozolol (0.1mg per kg per day) had no effect whatsoever on GH or IGF-1 levels. It is to be noted that IGF-1 increases satellite cell activity, muscle DNA content, muscle protein content, muscle weight and muscle cross sectional area (Adams,1998).
Why is this so important ? "When satellite cells are prohibited from donating new nuclei, overloaded muscle will not grow (Rosenblatt,1992 & 1994; Phelan,1997). so , as we can see , the increase in igf-1 levels(which would be one of the results of estrogen) in the body is very important to achieve muscle growth .
b)Estrogen is not a fat accumulating agent ! yes thats right! infact, it is both an appetite supressive as well as a fat burning agent. Recent research has reported that part of the fat burning ability of testosterone is due to estradiol (2) .
c) Estrogen lowers levels of the enzyme lipoprotein lipase (LPL), when LPL activity increases, the potential for adiposity increases(3).
d)Estrogen also increases androgen receptor upregulation, and this means what!? it is making your testosterone work better! also the more AR’s, the more lipid uptake is inhibited (4).
Of course there is definitely something called too much estrogen, which would cause proliferation of preadipocytes into which can mature into fat cells,not to mention gyno etc. so what i’m trying to say here is, its best to maintain optimum levels of estrogen for all the above mentioned reasons, while not allowing estrogen levels to go out of control. use an aromatase inhibitor only if necessary.

(1) Fryburg DA., Weltman A., Jahn LA., et al: Short-term modulation of the androgen milieu alters pulsatile, but not exercise- or growth hormone releasing hormone-stimulated GH secretion in healthy men: Impact of gonadal steroid and GH secretory changes on metabolic outcomes. J Clin Endocrinol. Metab. 82(11):3710-37-19, 1997

(2) Metabolism 1997 Feb;46(2):179-85 Evidence for sex steroid inhibition of lipoprotein lipase in men: comparison of abdominal and femoral adipose tissue. Ramirez ME, McMurry MP, Wiebke GA, Felten KJ, Ren K, Meikle AW, Iverius PH

(3) Metabolism 1993 Apr;42(4):446-50 The effect of testosterone aromatization on high-density lipoprotein cholesterol level and post heparin lipolytic activity. Zmuda JM, Fahrenbach MC, Younkin BT, Bausserman LL, Terry RB, Catlin DH, Thompson PD. Department of Medicine, Miriam Hospital, Providence, RI.

(4) Androgen hormone binding to adipose tissue in rats. Biochim Biophys Acta. 1995 May 11;1244(1):117-20.

Is that news? I thought that was general knowledge already.

I think the key fact given was the usage of aromatase inhibitors ie. clomid, nolv etc. over blockers as being more beneficial. I just had a discussion with cy where he mentioned that aromatase blockers being over used and when over used are detrimental to health. It is kinda making me re-think aromatase prevention. I used to only use clomid for this because the cost of arimadex was so prohibitive. Maybe we’ll start thinking like this again except perhaps on the more aggresive cycles. Then again I’ve been rethinking aggresive cycles also… I am getting a headache again…

It’s pretty easy to feel when you have lowered your estrogen too much. I think that we should just strive to find a balance between too low, and bloated with titties.

spookaroo i AGREE WITH WHAT YOU SAY.i read in the last print article where some estrogen supression is ok but total supression is bad.sometimes guys get a shitty outlook when strogen is to low or not detectable.i experienced that first hand and then read the article cy wrote and it helped me alot.i used to think estrogen was the enemy but thats not always the case.i am new to all of this iam learning as i go so thats why i posted this to see what experienced vets thoughts are.hope i didnt post something that was a waste of space.i thought it was good info.


Shiiiiiiiiiit, this is fuckin me up now…I thought I had the anti-E game down kind of. Fuck! back to the drawing board!

wanna see my sword…haha

I agree with this study except I don’t think IGF1 (or long R3) does much for muscle growth. A lot of my friends use it for healing but not one has gained any muscle or lost fat with IGF1 alone. It makes em tired, helps the healing process.

The tour de france guys love to abuse IGF1 and HGH. They don’t see much of an impact from it at all… but its not detectible.

Twisted. I agree with your claim for IGF1 when administered doesn’t do much. Infact from all I seen posted it doesn’t do shit for anybody whos used it. However the article is talking about increased IGF-1 being increased by the endogenously?. Fuck I sound stupid even to myself… Wish cy or sponge would jump in here…

Well check that spookaroo, last night my buddy was bragging about his six pack that came out since he started using long r3 a month ago. he’s on 33 iu’s / day. 3x / day. i aked him about diet and he said it was the same… shit, now i’m wondering.

Why mess with it when there are things like, uh, insulin, GH, and STEROIDS?

btw, the is 33iu’s total… 11 3x / day. at first it was like a pint killer / sleeping pill. almost like insulin. now he gets carbs w/ it.

Well I guess my point is that in order to grow more effectively you need to have some estrogen still there. It is contributary.

Good point Spook. The only time I ever was fatigued from a cycle (Ok, I’m only on my third one) was when I was stupid and using Arimidex at 1 per day, vice .5 every other day. Really messed up my hormones.

Ok, I can do the research, but can someone decipher “r3” so I know what it is/means? Never heard of it, but it sounds like some type of growth hormone (?)

r3igf-1 some guys are pushing it and saying its awesome for spot reduction but others say different.

I concur. IGF-1

I think and I am only a not very smart laymen at that. But I believe the R3 would relate to a type of molecule and where its located. I am sure you could use the search here or elsewhere and find some info on it if your really interested.