T Nation

What Do You Think About This Brock?


#1

Brock Lesnar not having to take drug test for ufc 200, some kind of exemption .


#2

Smells like BS, but pretty much what I would expect from White and company. No way Lesnar would pass a drug test being so close to coming off his WWE gig (where everyone is juiced out of their minds). Surprising that they somehow were able to buy off one of the state athletic commissions to allow them to do it though.


#3

I hope Mark knocks him out, i met a guy who wrested at Iowa when Brock was at Minnesota. And during a wrestling camp for kids, he was being rude and wouldn’t sign autographs, according to this person.


#4

Yeah, I’m not a Lesnar fan either. This is definitely your classic “grappler vs striker” match up though. Either it’s going to end in KO/TKO with Hunt’s hand raised, or decision/submission with Lesnar’s hand raised.

Seeing as how Brock has been out of actual fight competition for a while though and never liked getting hit even when he was training seriously, I’m hoping for a KO by Hunt as well. Not a fan of “circus” fights as I personally feel they hurt the legitimacy of the sport. Just my opinion though.


#5

Not a Brock fan at all, and I love Hunt. I’m biased as all fuck but I am hoping for Hunt. I don’t know if this is a true circus fight on the level of most of those old Pride matches though. Both these guys are serious athletes and there’s no totally ridiculous size discrepancy. I do think the match was meant for publicity and draw rather than anything else though (but again…White and company)


#6

Yeah, not a “circus fight” to the extent of Fedor vs Hong Man Choi, but a fight pretty much just based on hype/name recognition and not legitimate contender status.

Not saying that Lesnar couldn’t possibly win, just that, having been out of fighting for several years now (and only fighting very sporadically during his last few active years) he is not getting this fight with Huny based on winning fights/legitimate contender status and that there are quite a few more deserving fighters who are getting shafted simply because of Lesnar’s “brand.” I personally hate this kind of crap, and wish that Combat sports would do away with it entirely. It’s not like Football, Baseball, Basketball, or Hockey have any problems selling tickets or advertising and none of them would ever even consider having a “Championship” simply based on market share.

Just my opinion though.


#7

I totally agree with your opinion though. I think its bad for the sport


#8

Here’s hoping for another walk-off KO.


#9

Not sure what championship is at stake here but football, basketball, etc all have exhibition matches - some that are downright wacky.

Anyway, I think this will come down to whether Brock still has that insane explosiveness - which he probably doesnt which will mean he’ll cop a whack trying to take Hunt down and that will be it.


#10

This is not a championship fight, but you missed my point.

Whether it’s Mayweather dodging Pacquiao until he started to slow down before fighting him to avoid possibly losing, McGregor dodging Edgar repeatedly and instead being given Mendes on short notice to keep the MecGregor hype train going, or McGregor being given an immediate title shot at Dos Anos (moving up from featherweight, which of course didn’t actually happen due to an injury to the LW champ), or Brock Lesnar getting a shot at Randy Couture after only 2 fights (one of which was a loss to Frank Mir) Combat sports is rife with examples of shady match making, or at least match making based on perceived PPV buys rather than legitimate contender status.


#11

I think Dana white is getting to big for his britches, come on a whole show on how he can bench 315 and he’s a tough guy from Boston. Now a show “looking for a fight”, its on you tube, it’s a cross between tapout and man vs food. Sure he had a lot to do with making it bigger bought at 10 million now its worth 4 billion, he’s worth 350 million, and I like the free fights. But the reabok deal screwed the fighters out sponsorship money, especially the up and comers, look that up . He said he wanted the ufc to be legitimate and he did for the most part here are exceptions. Mike bisbing did not beat Hamill, the McGregor and diaz fight, Lesnar numerous times. And they need two more weight classes . 205,235,265,shw. He said to many heavyweight classes would make the fights to boring.


#12

There needs to be a fighter’s Union to avoid exploitation IMO.

Until either the fighters have enough collective bargaining power to demand that they either be paid sufficient money by the UFC to appropriately compensate them for their training/fighting or allow them to raise enough money via other venues like sponsorship; or we the fans finally say “enough is enough” and demand such things via not buying PPV’s; or the Federal Government/Athletic Commissions step in and impose regulations these practices will not only continue but may even increase now that there are new owners who undoubtedly will try to increase profits for themselves even more to make back the $4 Billion they paid for the organization.

I also like the idea of a Cruiserweight class (245) and increasing the HW upper limit to 285 (like it is for Collegiate and International Wrestling). The only possible problem could be a lack of available talent in the new HW division. Then again, if salaries rivaled those seen in Football or Basketball, I think we would see an increase in such talent pool.


#13

The weight jumps go from 10 pounds to 15 to 60lbs. I agree with you on 285 limit, their only a handful of people in the world who too much lean weight (bone dry) to make 285. But 205 then 245 to much i think 225 would have a lot of very talented fighter’s too big for 205 but to small for 265, JDS Cain even though he can cut the weight Jones. Plus with money guys who were in NFL like Brendan Schwab, Matt mitrione with crazy athletic abilities, and background in some fighting or grappling would be more attracted to sport. Like you said .


#14

I used 245 as the limit for a theoretical Cruiserweight class as it is half way between the 80 lb jump from 205 to the theoretical 285 limit I had in mind. If the UFC didn’t choose to raise the limit and kept it at 265, then I think 235 makes more sense (again, half way between the 60 lb weight jump from 205 to 265h).

I agree with you that many like Cain and JDS would do great at Cruiserweight while Monsters like Brock, Overeem, or even Mir these days would probably stay in HW. Jones may or may not choose to move up in such a scenario as well should he clean out the LHW division again and want new competition.


#15

Your 245 to 285 would be much better than it is now , the boxing cut off is like 210#. But in grappling the bodyweight makes much more of an advantage. I think they change the rule to 285 after Chris Tyler iowa state wrestler, at 400 plus had a huge weigh advantage, check out a picture of him he was in 68,72 Olympics i think, he was a human version of a bull mastiff.


#16

Read only some of this thread here are my thoughts:

  1. This is good for the sport because it gets more people to watch it. Pretty simple, it expands the viewership and that equals good.

  2. Lesnar getting a pass on drug testing is obviously unfair but what do you expect from Dana White? As I have said many times Dana White does not fix fights but he does try to arrange for certain people to win. Holding the fight in the favored persons home town, better dressing rooms, screwing up the music of those he wants to lose the list is endless. Some subtle things some not so subtle like avoiding a drug test. This is the main reason that I am picking Lesnar. I won’t bet against the house. White sometimes loses the fights that he “arranges” but it isn’t often.

  3. Those who think that Mark Hunt will be knocking out Lesnar better think again. Lesnar took Carwin’s best shots and kept going. He also took Velasquiz best shots, and while the fight was stopped Brock was no where near being knocked out. I also remember that Frank Mier in their second fight put a well placed knee directly to Lesnar’s head and…nothing happened. Easy to hit? Yes. Easy to knock out? Nope.

  4. Mark Hunt is 42 years old 5’ 10" to Lesnars 38 years of age and 6’ 3". It will not be easy for someone of Hunt’s height to actually reach Lesnar with a strong enough punch to knock him out. Sure it can be done but he will be constantly punching up as opposed to straight ahead that tends to wear on the arms. This is just one more disadvantage for Hunt. Let’s look at conditioning. Mark Hunt to my understanding is far over the weight limit and it is not muscle. His body fat is and will be much higher than Lesnars that means one more disadvantage. While Lesnar may not have been training MMA for the past few years he has certainly been active on the fake wrestling circuit. Before any of you pop an O ring screaming that it is not the same thing…I know they are worlds apart. My only point is that jumping around pretending to hit people and be hit can keep you in reasonable enough condition. In other words its not like he has been sitting on a fishing boat for 3 years. If he has a good camp conditioning and timing won’t be a factor.

  5. This is almost (not quite) like the grappler vs Striker fights we used to see in the UFC in the 90’s and who won most of those? The grapplers. Granted there is much more information and experience available today than there was back then. A good striker today, unlike in the 90’s knows how to sprawl and other countering techniques. But does Mark Hunt? I doubt it. I have watched his fights and he appears to be a one trick pony. If he hits his opponents correctly he can win. But as I said earlier while Lesnar is easy to hit he is not easy to stop. And with Hunt’s inferior height, conditioning and ground game he looks like easy pickings for Brock Lesnar.

And once again…as I said earlier before you plunk down your money on any certain fighter always ask yourself who does Dana White want to win? We know the answer to that. someone who will make him more money and that is Brock Lesnar.

I hate it…and I hope Hunt knocks him out in the first round just to defy White. But I don’t see anything like that happening.


#17

It wouldn’t surprise me if Lesnar takes the test anyway , he’s got the resources to get the stuff only a handful of people in the world have access to, this will make him look better. Ufc needs Lesnar to step up after all they put into McGregor and Ronda. The drug test thing was probably part of the plan all along. As far as your point on fake wrestling, Lesnar said 300 nights a year of landing on your back was much harder on body. I read the book by Animal of the Road Warriors he said that his trainer had them jump in the air and land on their backs 50 times before wrestling practice began Greg Gagne i think was his name, apperently the ring is not like a trampoline as i thought before.


#18

It’s a sprung matted floor, just like the octagon is. It’s designed to dissipate some of the impact/shock from falling, but not as much as a trampoline (which takes nearly all of it).

Anybody who denies that Professional Wrestling is not a physical and/or athletic profession is nuts. That said, Brock is not doing 300 matches a year like the lower tiered and smaller show guys; he does maybe 1-2 real matches a year. And while I’m sure he still trains the rest of the year and that such training has some conditioning effect on his body; there is still a big difference between such conditioning and fighting.

As the great Sugar Ray Robinson used to say, “it’s the shot you don’t see coming that really hurts/drops you.” Even though some of the impacts in Pro Wrestling are huge, they always know when and where they are coming and as such can mentally and physically prepare themselves to take them. You can take a ton more impact and not go down if you know it’s coming. That is the biggest difference between the two types of impact/conditioning. That and the fact that strikes in fighting are specifically placed and designed to damage your body, while the impacts in Pro Wrestling are designed to minimize them.

As far as Lesnar being able to take Hunt’s best shots, I strongly disagree. Hunt walk off KO’d Roy Nelson, who has otherwise proven to have Homer Simpson syndrome. Hunt is a former K-1 champion and save for Alistair Overeem (who TKO’d Brock with a liver kick, something that I could see Hunt also doing with a liver lunch) is the best striker that he has faced to date. Velasquez dropped Lesnar, it’s ridiculous to suggest that Hunt could not.

That said, I completely agree that Lesnar could also potentially take Hunt down and smother him/submit/TKO him on the ground for 5 rounds. We shall see.


#19

Hunt could knock him out and as I’ve said I would love to see it as Brock is Dana’s meal ticket. But, discounting the shots that Lesnar has taken and not been bothered is foolhardy. Yes, Overeem did drop Lesnar but that was when Lesnar was suffering with diverticulitis. I know a bit about this because my father suffered with it for over a year. It is absolutely devastating. Lesnar should not have been in the cage with Overeem. When Lesnar was healthy while he was batted around a few times he was never knocked out by anyone. Even Overeem didn’t knock him out as the fight was stopped.

I agree with you that anything can happen and that is what makes MMA exciting. But a fat Mark Hunt has one weapon and if he doesn’t land it early as the fight wears on he is not likely to do much harm as he tires. Is this a 5 round fight? I have no idea.

So, Hunt 1st, or 2nd round knock out? Could be. Lesnar ground and pound stoppage? Could be.

But as I said above I would never bet against the person whom Dana White wants to win.


#20

Not disagreeing about White’s stacking the deck in his favor. But, his biggest meal tickets have all been losing as of late, so Lesnar getting KO’d/TKO’d would just be karmic justice IMO.

I have to disagree about Hunt not being able to drop Lesnar in later rounds though; he is one of those rare fighters with power for days and regardless of the round a well timed/placed shot to the liver, chin, or temple from him could drop Lesnar (I bet you see him target Lesnar’s liver at least once if he doesn’t KO him to the head first).

Finally, agree about the diverticulitis; my Mom suffered through that and according to her it was arguably more painful than childbirth (which she did naturally 3 times). And agree that he never should have been in the ring with either Cain or Overeem. But, I tend to think that liver kick which TKO’d Brock would have put him down at any point in his career.