T Nation

What Do You Guys Think?

Ive done a routine including lots of squats, bench press, and deadlift for about 6 weeks so far maybe a little bit longer, however, my diet was pretty poor and i wasnt taking any supplements. I wanted to go on Lee Hayward’s 12 week program.

Here it is:
http://www.leehayward.com/workout_programs/index.htm

I am 16, 5"11, 150lbs. Been working out for about 2 months. Here are some stats. (sorry i haven’t done my maxes yet)
Bench Press: 135 (3x8)
Squat: 145 (3x8) <— might be innacurate
Deadlift: 140 (4x6)

Nutrition:
Off days: 5g creatine monohydrate in the morning with apple juice
workout days: 5g creatine monohydrate before workout with apple juice, 1 scoop(23g) of whey protein (i think i should add more scoops? let me know what you guys think) mixed with 5g of creatine monohydrate.

I always eat something high in protein after my workout when i get home, such as tuna, chicken, beans, etc. Consume about 8+ glasses of water a day.When people make nutrition plans and say what they eat by giving an example of 1 day, do they eat the same thing every day or just on workout days ?:S <— this has always confused me.

My nutrition was really bad before, im trying to improve it a lot, any tips or suggestions will be much appreciated.

Please let me know what you guys think about my plan. THANKS

What are your goals?

Size, strenght, sport?

Honestly, that routine sucked. Too much work for the shoulders, too many isolation exercises, and very little pulling (vertical OR horizontal plane).

I’d recommend getting a program from T-Nation, because they’re usually more balanced (eg - better). You can find one in the beginner stickies.

As for diet, you’ve got the basics down. Dan John (A T-Nation contributor) coined the following dietary advice for high school kids (he teaches)

[quote] Dan John Wrote:
My universal short list for all dieting advice: 1. Eat protein at every meal. 2. Eat fiber at every meal. 3. Take fish oil capsules. 4. Drink a lot of water. 5. Never miss breakfast. Yep, beginner stuff. But which of the rules do you break every day? Take a few honest weeks of following the basics of diet and you might be amazed at your results.[/quote]

My diet doesn’t change on workout days. For others, often the only difference is a PWO shake with protein and carbs (Or SURGE). So when people post sample diets, I assume that’s what they’re actually eating everyday.

[quote]LTD wrote:

Nutrition:
Off days: 5g creatine monohydrate in the morning with apple juice
workout days: 5g creatine monohydrate before workout with apple juice, 1 scoop(23g) of whey protein (i think i should add more scoops? let me know what you guys think) mixed with 5g of creatine monohydrate.

I always eat something high in protein after my workout when i get home, such as tuna, chicken, beans, etc. Consume about 8+ glasses of water a day.When people make nutrition plans and say what they eat by giving an example of 1 day, do they eat the same thing every day or just on workout days ?:S <— this has always confused me.

My nutrition was really bad before, im trying to improve it a lot, any tips or suggestions will be much appreciated.

Please let me know what you guys think about my plan. THANKS [/quote]

Unless you plan on doing a creatine loading phase; you only need 5g a day (off days; am is good. training days; post workout is where is should be)

post workout meals should be protein and carbs (rice, pasta, veggies etc…)

drink lots and lots of water for sure!

Dan John’s fish oil reccomendation is key; that stuff is great.

train hard; your young…you’ll get friggin huge if you keep up the good work and take 10% of the goodness away form this website.

i feel really stupid asking this, and ive tried many times before but after all i am posting in the beginner section… how do i search for workout routines on this site? :s
I do play hockey so my goals are to get strength and size.

http://www.T-Nation.com/archives.do?y=2008
There you go, all the articles on this site.

For athletes i heard “Westside For Skinny Bastards” gives great results.
Here is the latest version of the program:

http://www.elitefts.com/ws4sb/WS4SB.pdf

My brother has been on this programs for about a month and a half, his results so far are:

Starting Stats
5’1
109lb
BP- 65lb
Squat- 105lb
Deadlift- 120lb

One and a half month later:
5’1
118lb
BP- 125lb
Squat- 245lb
Deadlift- 205lb

Thanks matso,

So i went on that link u gave me and put together a WS4SB routine. Please bare with me, this is the first time i have done this. I need help with choosing the amount of sets/reps to aim for, i was thinking maximum amount of sets and minimum amount of reps (ie. if it says (3-4x8-12) then ill aim for 4 sets of 8 reps).

And, it says to rest about 90 seconds between each set of the main exercise for that day, how long should i rest between sets of the remaining exersises. Please give me your suggestions guys!! Thanks in advance.

Okay, so heres what i got so far, let me know if i understood everything correctly.

Monday (Max-Effort Upper Body)

Bench Press (work up to max set 3-5 reps) rest 90 seconds between each set
Incline DB Press (2x15-20)
A1- DB Rows (3-4x8-12)
A2 - Face pulls (3-4x8-12)
DB Shrugs (3-4 x 8-15)
Barbell Curls (3-4 x 8-15)

Tuesday (Dynamic-Effort Lower Body)

Box Jumps (5-8 x 1-3) rest 90 seconds between each set
Bulgarian Split Squats (2-3x8)
Hyperextensions (3x10)
Standing Sit-ups (4x10-15)

Thursday (Repetition Upper Body)

Incline DB Bench Press (3x3-5) rest 90 seconds between each set
A1- Lat Pulldowns (3-4x8-12)
A2- Rear Delt Flyes (3-4x8-12)
DB Shoulder Press (4x8-12)
B1- DB Shrugs (3x8-10)
B2- Hammer Curls (3x8) or Tricep Pushdowns (3x15) ? which one? (I think TP since I have no tri exercise)

Friday (Max-Effort Lower Body)

Deadlifts (work up to max set x 3-5) rest 90 seconds between each set
Bulgarian Split Squat (3x6-12)
45 Degree Hyperextensions (3x8-12)
AB CIRCUIT - seated sit-up (10-20), Decline Sit-ups(10-20), Leg Raises (10-20) 1-2 minutes rest after each set of circuit

That looks pretty good, remember to work up by using at least 5 sets on your max effort exercises.

The only suggestion i would give is taking the squats instead of the deadlift, and just doing Romanian deadlifts instead of the hyper extensions. I think as an athlete you would get more out of squats.

The way to set up your reps is shown in page 5 and 6 under the repetition for upper body. Rest periods are also outlined in those pages.

The way i worked it with my brother was to go for a weight he could do for the maximum sets and the minimum amount of reps. Every workout he would do more reps until he reached the maximum. On the next workout he would put more weight and start at the minimum amount of reps again.

B2 exercise on Thursday, i would do dips, i feel they are all around better then triceps pushdowns in my opinion. I would stay in the 5-8 rep rage personally. Remember your accessory lifts should be your weaknesses, so pick exercises that hit the weakness, don’t pick exercises by preference.

[quote]matso1236 wrote:
http://www.T-Nation.com/archives.do?y=2008
There you go, all the articles on this site.

For athletes i heard “Westside For Skinny Bastards” gives great results.
Here is the latest version of the program:

http://www.elitefts.com/ws4sb/WS4SB.pdf

My brother has been on this programs for about a month and a half, his results so far are:

Starting Stats
5’1
109lb
BP- 65lb
Squat- 105lb
Deadlift- 120lb

One and a half month later:
5’1
118lb
BP- 125lb
Squat- 245lb
Deadlift- 205lb
[/quote]

Are you serious?

He doubled his strength in a month and a half!?

[quote]LiftSmart wrote:

Are you serious?

He doubled his strength in a month and a half!?

[/quote]

Yep, he has been eating a lot, he sucks balls in the bench just like myself, but his squat is very good. He has short thick legs so they fit him well.

He also never deadlifts off the ground, just does RDL for his hamstrings, and rack pulled once because he didn’t feel like doing RDL’s. Last Saturday he maxed out 205 easy from the ground. I think he can do more counting he rack pulled 225 for 5.

Monday (Max-Effort Upper Body)
Bench Press (work up to max set 3-5 reps) rest 90 seconds between each set
Incline DB Press (2x15-20)
A1- DB Rows (3-4x8-12)
A2 - Face pulls (3-4x8-12)
DB Shrugs (3-4 x 8-15)
Barbell Curls (3-4 x 8-15)

Tuesday (Dynamic-Effort Lower Body)
Box Jumps (5-8 x 1-3) rest 90 seconds between each set
Bulgarian Split Squats (2-3x8)
Deadlift (3x10)***
Standing Sit-ups (4x10-15)

Thursday (Repetition Upper Body)
Incline DB Bench Press (3x3-5) rest 90 seconds between each set
A1- Lat Pulldowns (3-4x8-12)
A2- Rear Delt Flyes (3-4x8-12)
DB Shoulder Press (4x8-12)
B1- DB Shrugs (3x8-10)
B2- Hammer Curls (3x8) or Tricep Pushdowns (3x15) �?? which one? (I think TP since I have no tri exercise)

Friday (Max-Effort Lower Body)
Squats (work up to max set x 3-5)*** rest 90 seconds between each set
Bulgarian Split Squat (3x6-12)
45 Degree Hyperextensions (3x8-12)
AB CIRCUIT - seated sit-up (10-20), Decline Sit-ups(10-20), Leg Raises (10-20) 1-2 minutes rest after each set of circuit

okay, so i made the changes that u suggested (where the *** are). Hopefully my lower back doesnt kill on friday’s. I do squats on the smith machine, and my lower back ends up hurtin a bit after leavin it painful for the next day. My squatting form must be bad, because i even get pain holding the bar on my shoulders.

Jeez, it took me 5 months to double my starting strength.

I was about as strong as him when I started too.

[quote]LTD wrote:

okay, so i made the changes that u suggested (where the *** are). Hopefully my lower back doesnt kill on friday’s. I do squats on the smith machine, and my lower back ends up hurtin a bit after leavin it painful for the next day. My squatting form must be bad, because i even get pain holding the bar on my shoulders. [/quote]

Do you not have a power rack? Get off the smith machine, when i started training i would do all my squats in the smith machine, after 2 weeks i had to stop, my back was fucked up. My smith machine was also messed up since everyone uses them for 400lb shrugs, so the bar was bent like a beast.

Alright, ill give it a shot on the power rack. My lower back is pretty messed up, but the smith machine is in really good shape. Hopefully its not my form. And Matso, im going to do what you did with your little brother in terms of determining sets and reps.

Other than that, the routine looks alright?? I want to start it tomorrow morning.

It looks pretty good, if you see certain exercises are not working towards your goals, don’t be afraid to change them.

Good Luck and keep us posted.

****Something Else

A lot of people prefer doing deadlifts in the lower rep ranges. In the higher rep ranges you lose your form and a lot of the benefits of heavy-semi heavy deadlifts.

I recommend sets of 3-7 if you are going with conventional/sumo deadlifts from the floor.

If you are doing Romanian deadlift sets of 10 seem to work out fine for me.