Oooh, touche’. I’m gonna switch gears and post a new question - why is everybody afraid of putting on some fat? I’m not necessarily talking about the guys who’ve posted on this issue, but most lifters in general. If there’s one thing I’ve learned from powerlifters, it is to eat big to get big/strong (pardon the cliche’). Granted, a lot of sorry fucks in the gym use this adage to become fat pigs (refer to Rob Schuh’s fat building howl deep in the back issues…) but I’m amazed at how many seemingly intelligent trainers are so damn meticulous in their cutting phases but then too conservative in their attempts to gain. Shit, life ain’t a 24/7/365 photo shoot unless you’re Bill Phillips. If everybody took a longer term perspective on their goals they wouldn’t be afraid to tank up for a few months to achieve their goals. Maybe I’m just married and don’t have to be ripped any longer to get laid, who knows.
Doug, I have nothing at all against an anabolic diet. It is the way that michael and you approached it. Reread your posts. I sounds like you are telling people what to do. If you didn’t mean this, I’m sorry I took it wrong and accept my apology. When I posted this initially, I was trying to help those guys who have no clue as to what to eat. Sure I showed measurements of what I eat, not to be anal. I did it to show approx. what to eat. I don’t measure. I cut up 3-4 large mushrooms and one celery stalk. I throw in a chicken breast. I know how much french toast I have, I don’t think that is anal. I never told anyone that it was the only way. But, your posts seemed to tell the readers to do your way only. I don’t have any problem with whatever diet a reader chooses. In fact, being a personal trainer, I have to manipulate my clients diets all the time. I am not a big 40/30/30 advocate. It works for me, so I use it. If it doesn’t for you, no problem. I don’t think any diet works for all people, but it seems that the arguement was given that 40/30/30 (crap) diets don’t work. I never said that anabolic diets don’t work, just that they don’t work for me, so don’t tell me I need to get specific and do it. I don’t let my bodyfat get out of hand, so I don’t need to be drastic cutting or gaining. On another note, I choose to use sucralose and egg whites because I like my wine and bread and I hate the taste of egg yolks and pure sugar makes my insulin rise and crash too much. I choose to eliminate some bad things, so I can have others. I tell my clients this all the time, You can have this or that, but not both, if you want to see results. Also, I like making my own bread. It’s a stress reliever for me, it’s fun, and it sure tastes a lot better than store bought. I hope I cleared things up. Again, I apologize if you weren’t trying to tell everyone to eat your way. And yes, I did read your posts.
no worries Bodz… at least maybe now you realize that whatever you “suggest” can be twisted into meaning “you have to do it this way.” However, I would still like your thoughts on this issue…
“I’m in the camp that says you should be either cutting or bulking… there is no imbetween, unless you’re convinced you don’t want to make any more progress. Of course this is only my opinion.”
Pure and simple: EVERY DIET WORKS DIFFERENTLY FOR EVERY PERSON!!!
Sheesh, why is it that someone has good results from one diet, and they want to claim it’s the only way, or at the least, the BEST way? Come on, people, have so many of you bought into Mentzer-esque thinking that there’s only one correct way and all else falls short? I’d think that most of you would have already come to the conclusion that everything works to a degree, yet everything will suffer from adaptaion by the body and gradually lose effectiveness. From the naivete I see around here, I’m beginning to think that some of you still believe that the programs contained in MuscleMag will give you the 20-inch guns you’ve always wanted! I’ve had great results with keto dieting, 40/30/30 dieting, and currently, I just shoot for an ideal range of 50g protein/20-50g carbs, (75-100g post workout meal) and 8-20g fat (or 5g or less post-workout meal) and ya know what? It isn’t exact, but I’m still putting on a pound or two of lean mass here and there while not gaining fat. This shit ain’t necessarily rocket science, people. Just like those who come here plotting every cycle they want to do down to the last fraction of a mg of gear they want to shoot, it needs to be said that a slight variation from the root ideal is NOT going to destroy the effectiveness of a program (with the possible exception of keto dieting, though I’ve personally shot down the theory of “too much protein will always make you fall out of ketosis” by consuming 100g of protein powder at a time and had it put me into DEEPER ketosis than I had been just beforehand!) Now, I personally don’t have the time or money to spend on making every meal of every day be precise and perfect for maximum results for whatever my goals are - I’m just forming my own personal training business, I’m planning my wedding, I work full time doing database administration, I’m doing my other studies, and when I have some free time, I’m trying to find a home to buy; this doesn’t leave me with what I need to be looking at my watch every 90-120 minutes saying, “Well, it’s time to take my supplements!” I eat 5-7 times per day, I bust my ass in the gym doing whatever workout plan is doing well for me at the time, and I get results. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I don’t want to miss out on the rest of what life has to offer me because I’m obsessing about every little detail of my diet and exercise plan. Just a simple reminder to some of you - if competing and aspirations of going pro aren’t in your future, then why neglect everything else for the sake of lifting? I love bodybuilding. It’s my one release from everyday stresses which also makes me a bigger, stronger person in more than one way, but it isn’t my reason for existence.
Well, sorry for getting off track, but I’m seeing way too much bickering and talk of how “I know my program works, your program sucks!” It’s getting a little old. So, my bitching is done. Enjoy.
Doug, In regards to your question about your statement. I think that is fine. I personally do the same thing. I add calories to my base. My base is where I am maintaining. I use my base if I am not training as much, due to seminars, travel, training, or recuperation ( I believe that you should take a cycle of 1-3 weeks, where you just have fun…no worries about rest periods, weights, programs, etc). I add to my base, when I want to bulk and train with heavier weights and rest longer. I subtract from my base and do lighter weights with less rest to lose bodyfat, only when I put too much fat on in a bulking cycle or I want to look better for summer. So, that being said, I think we pretty much agree on that point.
Flax, you are the great and powerful OZ. I can’t say anything more. You said it all.
Hopefully that wasn’t sarcasm you were speaking!
I just felt the urge to vent a bit this morning, and this was the place to do it. I don’t know why so many people get hung up on what they believe to be superior with some stuff, but it happens, and there’s not much anyone can do about it. Everyone wants to think that they’ve discovered the magic program or diet which will work better than the rest and leave all others in the dust. Little do they know that eventually everything loses its luster and ability to work miracles, and then it becomes just another program or diet. Switch things up; if you’ve always done a high-carb diet and haven’t see results, go low-carb for a few weeks! If you’re not seeing reasults with doing 12-15 sets for your chest workout, switch the exercises, cut the number of sets in half, and see what happens! I think that the whole concept of confusing your body is probably one of the best tricks in bodybuilding, and it’s always so overlooked by people; it’s hard for many to grasp the notion of, “If it ain’t working, don’t keep using it!” Some may have been doing the same routine workout for 6 months and have stopped seeing results, then they pop handfuls of andro and take all the popular supplements, and still don’t see squat, yet all it might take is a change in something so simple! And, many times, these people finally DO change their diet and training, see results for the first time in ages, and then they belive it to be the detail that has made all the difference when they should be praising the change itself! I don’t know, I guess it just takes a few years for people to come to this conclusion on their own; I had to suffer through my own idiocy for at least 3 years before I came to use logic to dictate my training over hype. To each his own…
Flax, it was meant as a compliment. Great second post. Three years, that’s not bad. A lot of guys still don’t get it.
I think you hit it right on Flax. Change is most often going to good things for bodybuilers. Sorry if I sounded bitchy in my first post but I’ve had horrible experiences on high carb diets. True enough, everything works differently on each person, there’ve been people who fell asleep like narcaleptics when given stimulants and people that get stimulant effects on sleep aids-- I’m serious. As for Jeff D, you DO eat carbs on the Anabolic and T-Dawg diet, but only on the carb up faze on the weekend. And you don’t go into Ketosis on carb-dplet carb-up diets because of the carb up faze.
Unfortunately, I am just a poor college student. I am often lacking the time to make these great meals that I am supposed to eat. I usually eat every 3 hours, three meals being consisting of a mrp that is 40%maltodextrin, 25%whey, and 35% casseinate. The remainding meals are whatever I can find that will supply me with at least 40g of protein and about that many carbs or quite often more, and whatever fat comes with it. I eat lots of tuna, chicken and lean ground meat. I probally hit about 3200 to 4000 cals a day. When I find more time and money, I will follow a more disciplined diet.
Cool, Bodz. I was just givin’ ya a hard time, that’s all.
It’s nice to see everyone coming together on this a bit more. And for the person who mentioned that they didn’t see great results on a keto diet, don’t worry about it, as I’ve known a few people who haven’t seen squat as far as results on it either. It’s weird how well one thing can work for some people and either do nothing or actually make things worse for another. There are people out there who can get lean on high-carb diets, then there are some who can’t do it without cutting carbs out almost completely. Some people need tons of cardio to cut up well, some need nothing more than lifting and a few minor diet tweaks and they’re ripped in a matter of weeks. It sure would be nice if we all knew from the get-go as to what programs and diets would suit our needs best and would give us the greatest results, but alas, we all will spend years just to begin to scratch the surface of what it is that our bodies will respond to the best. The important thing for all of us to do is keep note of what it is that we see the greatest results on, and make each such diet/program just one tool in our arsenal so we don’t overuse it and keep it to the point where we can pull it out every few weeks/months and keep it working for us. As long as ya keep confusing your system, you’ll always have an advantage. I only wish I’d known it sooner…