T Nation

What Do You Do When a PCT Fails?

I ran nolvadex for six weeks and it didn’t get me back to normal. Now I’m running nolvadex and clomid. What should I do if that doesn’t work?

What does “back to normal” mean for you?
What did you’re blood work put you at?
How long have you been running cycles, what compounds & doses.
How did you feel and how long did you stay off nolva before starting the second pct?

You may just need to relax a bit and just give yourself a chance to recover, perhaps it’ll take longer than expected to get there.

You may not ever get back to “normal”.

If you can’t reaonably exist with the testosterone levels you produce naturally, then it time to start looking at trt, in all its forms, or I guess, perma blast, but I couldn’t really recommend that.

If you are good enough you just get on with life and realize that if you run more cycles you probably will continue to struggle with recovery. And again trt may in your future.

Can you post your blood test?
Your post is way to vague. Without details you will get very little real help.

I’m getting blood tests done this week. I was only taking test e and I took 100mg of dianabol on one occasion and it shut me right down. I haven’t had a libido in months.

But I was taking test e for around two years at trt doses. I don’t really use to build a lot of muscle just for a modest boost to energy, leanness, and wellbeing. It worked for the couple of years until I used the dianabol out of curiosity. When I stop taking nolvadex and clomid my energy completely flatlines so I feel kind of dependant on them…maybe that means I do need this second PCT?

It may mean you’re not coming back to normal, unfortunately. Two years on is a long time, and will probably take some time if you do recover.

Edit: can you give anymore details? How much test were you taking? When did you start PCT relative to your last T shot?

I was taking around 250mg every week or so. I start my PCTs two weeks after last shot. Maybe it was too early? Is 20mg a day enough nolva? What options are available to me if I don’t recover? Is it really bleak?

Well if it helps, I had a friend that perma blasted for 18 months with Test, Tren and Mast. He said it took him 6 months to recover. He did Clomid the whole 6 months. I think Nolva is better as far as side effects. He said he was tired all the time for about the first 4-5 months.

If it was me, I would run 20 mg/day Nolva and get labs frequently (maybe every 6 weeks). Once I was getting above range TT and FT values, I would ramp the Nolva down until I was off, check labs after 4-6 weeks off to see what your levels are at.

I wouldn’t normally suggest such a long PCT, but you didn’t do a typical cycle either. I think recovery will be longer and more difficult, but it will happen (at least you have a very good chance at it).

Thanks so much - this is more encouraging than I dared hope for. Regarding Clomid…I dont get any side effects and I have loads of it. Should I just go ahead and take it along with the nolva? At 50mg per day clomid and 20mg nolva? Or should I just do one of them? My doctor has actually referred me to endocrinology…I don’t know if they’ll agree to see me. The weird thing is my last bloods were in normal range but I still had no sex drive and wasn’t even producing much semen. Weird.

Were your bloods in range while on the Nolva or off of it?

I would probably stick to Nolva or Clomid. I would do a longer PCT at lower doses so either like 20 mg Nolva or 40-50 Clomid. My buddy I think did 50 mg/day Clomid for the 6 months. He now has TT of about 550 ng/dL which is fairly average for a 35 Y/O man.

I know another individual that used like 15 mg/day of Clomid to treat low T. He got his TT into the 900s with that low dose. I don’t think more is always better. Your nuts will be tapped out at a certain LH / FSH levels. Taking a ton of SERMS to get LH and FSH even higher doesn’t make sense, and will just increase side effects.

They were in range after nolva - but only one week after, which I later realised may have been too soon?

I think you should do blood work about a month after your PCT. You may just not feel as good as you did on 250 mg/wk, but are actually recovered. Your levels may still drop off as the half life of Nolva is fairly long (5-7 days). What was your TT and FT after a week off?

My doctor didn’t actually check my free t. I can find these right now

SHBG: 23.3nmol/l (16.2-68.5)
Free androgen index: 102.3 (24.5 - 113.3)
Testosterone: 21.2nmol/l (8.8 - 27.9)
Oestradiol: below 92 (below 161pmol/l)

Your labs aren’t bad here. You were only on Nolva, correct? I am guessing your levels will fall a bit more as the Nolva clears the system. I would retest when you get to 4 weeks post PCT. You need that data to make a decision on what to do next.

I know right? I actually thought those levels meant I could go back on a modest dose of test e - but just one shot made me feel I was shutting down again. Hence being back on PCT again. I need to be more patient!

Yeah maybe that was too early. Try another PCT and see

I’m surprised this isn’t higher while taking Nolva/Clomid. Is your stuff legit?

Yeah I think so. Brand name Taxus purchased in a pharmacy in Colombia. Widely available brand. Is there anything I can do to up my shbg?

No, you do not want it higher

Oooh I thought a lower shbg = low sex drive.