T Nation

What Civil War?

DESPITE sectarian slaughter, ethnic cleansing and suicide bombs, an opinion poll conducted on the eve of the fourth anniversary of the US-led invasion of Iraq has found a striking resilience and optimism among the inhabitants.

The poll, the biggest since coalition troops entered Iraq on March 20, 2003, shows that by a majority of two to one, Iraqis prefer the current leadership to Saddam Hussein?s regime, regardless of the security crisis and a lack of public services.

The survey, published today, also reveals that contrary to the views of many western analysts, most Iraqis do not believe they are embroiled in a civil war.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
The survey, published today, also reveals that contrary to the views of many western analysts, most Iraqis do not believe they are embroiled in a civil war.

[/quote]
Is that because they view the war as an “American led invasion”?

Hmmm, who would have thought the Iraqi people didn’t like their previous leader?

Civil war is a funny phrase.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
The poll, the biggest since coalition troops entered Iraq on March 20, 2003, shows that by a majority of two to one, Iraqis prefer the current leadership to Saddam Hussein?s regime, regardless of the security crisis and a lack of public services. [/quote]

That’s a good way of phrasing it, alright. I mean can anyone possibly get worse than Saddam?
Fact of the matter is that more Iraqis still think they were better off before 2003. I strongly encourage everyone to check out survey results by themselves instead of relying on others to analyze it for you.

On a related note, this bit is probably the most relevant: The number of Iraqis who approve of attacks on coalition troops has risen from 17% in a similar survey three years ago to 51% now.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6454251.stm

How dare those ungrateful bastards not offer you flowers and greet you as liberators 4 years after the invasion? One wonders…

Lol, 30 seconds before opening this thread i saw on tv that a new study revealed that most Iraqis look with deep pessimism into the future, that every 2. Iraqi lost relatives since march 2003, that most people are scared to leave their houses, and that the great majority of the Iraqis hold the US-forces, and not the insurgents, responsible for that.

The study was from the usatoday, CNN and others:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-04-28-poll-cover_x.htm

“Bearing the brunt of Iraqis’ ill feeling: U.S. troops. The most visible symbol of the occupation, they are viewed by many Iraqis as uncaring, dangerous and lacking in respect for the country’s people, religion and traditions.”

“The insurgents, by contrast, seem to be gaining broad acceptance, if not outright support. If the Kurds, who make up about 13% of the poll, are taken out of the equation, more than half of Iraqis say killing U.S. troops can be justified in at least some cases.”

Sounds no good…

Seriously, its not a question if but when Washington admits that the whole adventure was a mistake. Theres no sense in occupying a country that hates u, it didnt work in Vietnam and it doesnt today. The US forces will keep getting killed as long as they choose to stay there…

To whole war is pointless, a failure and every US soldier in Iraq died for nothing but the insanity of a certain political fraction. Thats the sad, cold truth, stop living in denial…

[quote]lixy wrote:
…[/quote]

From your link

[quote]Poll ‘out of date’

Leading Shia politician Dr Humam Hamada, chairman of the Iraqi parliament’s foreign affairs committee, has said he thinks the poll findings are out of date.

Baghdad and other Iraqi towns bear the scars of war

“Since this poll was taken the new security plan has been put into place and there is now hope not pessimism,” he said on a visit to London as part of a committee delegation.

"The death rates are down and there are indications that the people recognise that there is a strong government and law and order. They are coming forward with information.

“There has been tribal co-operation against the al Qaeda terrorists, who have fabricated this war. This shows that the Iraqi people can co-exist. In addition, we have taken steps towards reconciliation.”
[/quote]

You just hate seeing any good news. I think Hedo might have you pegged.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:


[/quote]

From wikipedia:

“The Sunday Times is a Sunday broadsheet newspaper distributed in the United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland…Rupert Murdoch’s News International acquired the papers in 1981.”

Surprise, Surprise…

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:

You just hate seeing any good news. I think Hedo might have you pegged.
[/quote]

For what it’s worth, I think this book review captures his outlook nicely:

http://www.claremont.org/publications/crb/id.1260/article_detail.asp

[quote]
Zap Branigan wrote:

Ken Kaniff wrote:
From wikipedia:

“The Sunday Times is a Sunday broadsheet newspaper distributed in the United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland…Rupert Murdoch’s News International acquired the papers in 1981.”

Surprise, Surprise…[/quote]

Umm, Ken, the survey in question was sponsored jointly by USA TODAY, ABC News, the British Broadcasting Corp. and ARD, a German TV network.

ADDENDUM: My apologies Ken – there were two surveys, one of which was commissioned by the Times and conducted by a British opinion firm, and the other by the parties mentioned above.

However, on the measure of positives, I believe the two are within each other’s margin of error – which should also speak to the importance of wording questions in opinion polls…

From the USA Today piece, I thought this was interesting:

[i]Not every Iraqi makes such dire assessments. There are significant differences in outlook within the country and among its groups.

Kurds, who make up 15%-20% of the population and are largely independent in northern Iraq, describe the fewest problems and express the most optimism about progress in the next year. Shiites, who make up about 60% of the population and suffered discrimination and brutality under Saddam Hussein, say they’re struggling, but many remain hopeful about Iraq’s long-term future. Sunni Arabs, another 15%-20% of the population and the group that lost power when Saddam was ousted, express almost universal desperation.[/i]

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
You just hate seeing any good news. I think Hedo might have you pegged.[/quote]

Good for him…

Seriously though, where did you get the impression that I “hate seeing good news”? The part of the poll you emphasized is laughable; Nobody can possibly be worst than Saddam. How’s linking and paraphrasing from the BBC (as opposed to the infamous Times) not serving the balance in the debate? For all I know, the BBC is as fair as you could get in the mainstream.

[quote]
“The Sunday Times is a Sunday broadsheet newspaper distributed in the United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland…Rupert Murdoch’s News International acquired the papers in 1981.”

Surprise, Surprise…

Umm, Ken, the survey in question was sponsored jointly by USA TODAY, ABC News, the British Broadcasting Corp. and ARD, a German TV network.

ADDENDUM: My apologies Ken – there were two surveys, one of which was commissioned by the Times and conducted by a British opinion firm, and the other by the parties mentioned above.

However, on the measure of positives, I believe the two are within each other’s margin of error – which should also speak to the importance of wording questions in opinion polls…[/quote]

I thought it was kind of funny, i saw it on ARD, and the first sentence was like “a study shows the majority of Iraqis look gloomy into the future…every other Iraqi has lost realtives since the start of the war”, and Zap on T-Nation writes “opinion poll conducted…has found a striking resilience and optimism among the inhabitants…there is no civil war”

Within margin of error, i dont know…

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
From the USA Today piece, I thought this was interesting:

[i]Not every Iraqi makes such dire assessments. There are significant differences in outlook within the country and among its groups.

Kurds, who make up 15%-20% of the population and are largely independent in northern Iraq, describe the fewest problems and express the most optimism about progress in the next year. Shiites, who make up about 60% of the population and suffered discrimination and brutality under Saddam Hussein, say they’re struggling, but many remain hopeful about Iraq’s long-term future. Sunni Arabs, another 15%-20% of the population and the group that lost power when Saddam was ousted, express almost universal desperation.[/i][/quote]

Well its good to see something that shows the vast majority liked the help, this just makes my faith in the country grow more and more.

What Civil War? You ask?

And then from the first line of your post: “sectarian slaughter, ethnic cleansing and suicide bombs”.

Well, that civil war perhaps? I could be mistaken. You think there’s another civil war?

is this the civil war that involves Iron man? Or the 1 with lots of sand? I keep forgetting…

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
You just hate seeing any good news. I think Hedo might have you pegged.
[/quote]

GOOD NEWS, IRAQ IS GOING GREAT!!!

The president just has a little public relations problem (damn liberal media) that’s all! If we can get rid of the free press, that won’t be a problem. We’re already spending millions in taxpayer bucks, to create positive news stories in the region.
http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/13295806.htm

WOO HOO!!! VICTORY LAP!!!