The vast majority of the trt problems on here are totally unrelated to trt. Once you start to dig deeper they start telling you about diet, training, stress at work, etc and huge red flags pop up. There should be a rule: if after a year of trt you’re not feeling better then you have a mandatory psych evaluation and a former Marine and a yoga instructor follow you around for a week and observe your workouts and meals. That would clear up pretty much every issue that ends up here.
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I’ve heard from more and more guys who are not feeling as good on TRT this year, guys doing great previously. Upon further questioning, they are now working from home, somewhat isolated, not eating right, not exercising (gyms are closed), admittedly drinking, or drinking more, maybe clinically depressed, etc. Funny how a complete change in lifestyle is associated with all of that.
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Yeah but it’s way easier to take a medicine that will make chicks dig you and guys envy you than to be self-reflective and ask, “am I really trying?”. My libido is worse on TRT, though it massively helped thyroid and insulin resistance and mental stability. Now my nuts are the size of almonds and I’m sterile (sperm test - 0 sperm) and my ejaculate volume is only one spirt of 0.5mL probably less than an average spit drop.
Ejaculate volume should improve on HCG. Without it yeah, you end up with very little to work with down there.
So guys I’m going with the 3 times a week protocol at 25mg each shot, I think I need more frequent shots and I think you guys might also be right in that maybe I do need a bit higher dose so will do this and increase slightly if I need to as I go along after 6 weeks.
Thanks for all your help and I definitely second the pathetic ejaculate! Though I’ve been trying sunflower lecithin and pyegum which seems to be helping a bit! Worth a try!
@systemlord Can I ask you a question? What difference did you notice each time you moved injections to shorter frequency?
I’ve already done 2 more frequent and might be placebo but have felt a slight improvement, I think my body prefers the smaller amount in one go but more frequent, probably similar to how I eat my meals, I can’t eat any big meals at all or I feel terrible, so I have a very small meal but every couple of hours.
Appreciate not directed at me but will answer with my personal experience - having started at weekly, then gone to E3.5D, then to E3D, then EOD and finally daily. You say you are low SHBG - I know the feeling; as at October 2020’s blood test I’m currently at 13 nmol/l (range 10-57). Daily has been a real game-changer for me.
Broadly speaking, TRT has worked better for me as I’ve reduced T volume and increased frequency. I’m currently using 29G 0.5 inch insulin pins, injecting only 0.075ml a day (taking the ester into account, it’s around 13mg of test). My key benefits felt within the first week was an evening in mood/less jittery; and over the coming weeks my shoulder/chest/back acne subsided dramatically despite no changes to the diet.
Contrast that with my initial protocol- one 1ml/cc (weekly) injection of c. 210mg of test (taking the ester into account at a concentration of 300mg/ml). Acne flares, mood swings, trouble sleeping, sensitive nipples, a need for cialis at 10mg daily and TT over 3100ng/dl as verified by bloods. Just awful.
Daily or EOD and a lower overall volume of test (c. 90-100mg a week) have been the only protocols that have enabled me to drop the cialis, save for special occasions or times of increased tiredness (we all have a lot of ‘external’ things going on right now which really do play their part). So if you are low SHBG, try daily using insulin pins and a lower T volume, give it a few weeks and see how you feel. Others seem to prefer higher volume than what I need (200mg + would feel like I was on cycle, personally) but you may find a sweeter spot than where you are now. Good luck and hope it helps.
I should add, in terms of ejaculate volume - it has definitely decreased. I used to take pride in ‘heavy’ loads and they’re around half, if lucky, of pre-TRT glory. I use hCG @ 250iu EOD which seems to be a fairly standard dosage, and it does help the testicular shrinkage/reduce the ache I personally experienced when on T only.
However, if you really want your ejaculate back, consider FSH. It’s subQ just like hCG but around 10x more expensive. I’m with a private clinic im the UK and my hCG (5000iu) costs £35 a month. When I took the FSH and LH combo called “Menopur” for a few months, it set me back £375 a month for 10 x 150iu vials (one every 3 days). Costs a lot but after 4 or so weeks of that, I vividly remember a slight increase in testicular fullness but a drastic increase in ejaculate volume and once again being able to ‘see’ the sperm in the result as it’s a lot thicker. I actually am considering going back on it purely for the aesthetics and not merely the fertility boost. Menopur/FSH took me back to I’d say a 7 or 8 out of 10 on the testicular/ejaculation front, with hCG alone keeping me around the ‘3’ mark.
Man I really appreciate this info and feedback, cheers!
Exact same SHBG as me 13nmol/L
Who are you with in UK? I’m also in UK and private.
What does your dose work out at daily then?
I’m going to give this 25mg Monday, Wednesday, Friday a go for a while with the view to eventually going EOD and then daily, I’m just a bit cautious with things.
I only changed protocol this week but I do feel slightly better already.
If I went EOD would I need to lower my dose? So like 20mg EOD? @byronichero1983
I’m with OptiMale - I think there are others too (Balance my Hormones, The Men’s Health Clinic in addition to going private under the care of individual endocrinologists like say, Prof. Bouloux who was the one who gave me the Menopur/FSH idea).
I use a 1ml insulin syringe and I backfill those in sets of 5-7 at a time as it’s easier to do dailies that way, with a week’s worth already good to go. Taking the ester into account I must be on about 13-15mg daily and so ending up in the 90-105mg a week region. You’ll note that’s on the lower end of the doses you see here and it’s tempting to assume that because you and I have the same SHBG that we will benefit from the same protocol… Unfortunately there is always more to it given our lives/lifestyles invariably differ. If you ask Systemlord you may get a recommendation for 6-7mg a day, if you ask Dextermorgan you may get a recommendation for 28mg a day… Ask others and you may hear higher still (to be honest, I’ve started to pay less attention to the ‘numbers’ game now, focusing on symptom relief instead). All highly personal and it’s whatever works to resolve symptoms best for you - and that takes time as protocol changes need around 4-6 weeks to really start ‘levelling out’ and that’s where you get the benefit, if any.
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Low SHBG of 16 over here. Dailies work best for me. Its just the way it turned out after trying twice a week, and EOD.
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So been doing EOD for a week now and feeling a lot better! Like so much better, doing 25mg EOD, though over last few days noticed a bit of insomnia creeping up etc @systemlord I think I heard you mention before when increasing frequency you may notice that you may need to decrease dose slightly?
Think I may run 20mg EOD and give that a good 6 weeks?
@byronichero1983 I’m with Optimale too buddy! They are very helpful, are you on Test E or Test C? How do you backfill the insulin syringes? I tried that previously and it takes an eternity of the oil to go back down the syringe to meet the plunger when i put it back in lol! Though if i can find a way around this i will definitely return to this method and means for a more accurate form of dosing as they are 0.5ml syringes, currently using 0.1ml with 27 needles, dont mind it but difficult to accurately measure if you need to do say 0.07 or something like that.
I am noticing a big difference already on the lower more frequent injections but noticing that my E2 is creeping up slightly but I know that my old protocol will still be in my system so need to give it a good 6 - 8 weeks to stabilise etc and hopefully that will come down again 
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Switching my dosing down to e3d has added loads of stability over once weekly e6d and e5d.
I didnt bother with e4d due to how I split an ampoule into parts.
Definitely don’t feel a peak and trough anywhere near as extreme.
I’m using sustanon though and its notoriously unstable levels if you don’t pin regularly due to the prop ester within a shot.
Indeed they are! I’m on the Test E protocol (comes in 10 x 1ml ampoules). They do Test C as well (10ml multidose vial) but having tried both I can’t say I could *feel a difference. The Test C is thinner, for sure, and I guess some might say that makes a difference for injections, but personally I haven’t noticed.
I have two separate decanting stages: first the individual ampoules by drawing each up (4-5 at a time to make my own multidose vial using the 10ml sterile vials you can buy on eBay - I decant my hCG into those too, and that one of course lives in the fridge). Second, for my dailies, I draw from the multidose vial I made (using an 18G blunt-fill needle) and then put the relevant amount of oil into the insulin pins via backfill (c. 0.05/0.075 at a time, so a very small amount). I do this in sets of about 5 at a time, so I’ve then got 5 ‘open’ insulin pins standing upside down. To complete it I then flip it back, right side up, and when the oil begins to move in the first second or so, I reinsert the plunger and push up near to the top. The falling oil comes down to meet the rising plunger and you may get a couple of tiny droplets at the end of the needle, which you can simply wipe off using the pre-injection alcohol swabs. Once they are ready, plunger near the top and so only needing a small push to ‘close the gap’, I replace the cap and then those ready-made needles are then good to go. The process is so quick that the draw and backfilling 5x only takes 3-4 mins. I really like then having the week’s worth immediately at hand and ready, saves so much time.
Good luck and happy new year!
How much is it costing you to be with optimale?
Im also in the UK.
99 per month (that is my Test E protocol). Far more than UGL obviously but I want the pharma grade T and the Dr support that comes with the private clinic, etc.
Im £20 plus £22 for sustanon and i think hcg is working out around £40. So not that short of yours. Are you on HCG also?
I also want pharma and to be under the care of the doctor but ive been told that test e is £30 an amp so 10x the price of a UGL
If only i could find a pharmacy to supply it at a reasonable price. The whole trt situation in the UK seems to be a racket currently.
I come and go with hCG (£35 a month for me via private clinic, and tbh not much less if you get it via a UGL site it seems). You’re not wrong on the cost of Test E - there is a significant mark-up… I’ve rather gotten used to it but I must admit when I do a ‘blast’ in 2021 I will source my additional Test from my UGL sources given regular testosterone, while sometimes underdosed from such places, is seldom faked at least.
Yeah I’m using Sus purely on cost basis.
I’m hoping in years to come I’ll have a higher income and won’t have to factor cost into it.
For now its a huge difference!