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What Benefits with Different Injection Frequencies?

There’s effectively no difference between test E & C. Going to MWF injection frequency will keep your levels more stable than twice a week. Hct, I think, is typically lower on an increased injection frequency but you’ll just have to check and keep an eye on it.

I don’t think there’s any real benefit to going to eod vs MWF once you get rolling for a couple of weeks.

I, personally, consider you dose to be on the very low end of trt, assuming I read you right at 75mg/w. I think, if you’re still symptomatic that bumping the dose is what you need to do rather than just playing with inj frequency. I think injection frequency is a fine tuning option, dose is the main factor.

Large spike in testosterone = higher hct. Therefore you’d assume that smaller, more frequent doses would cause less of an increase. Ymmv

PS the test ester that causes the lowest incidence of HCT related issues? Test U.

Appreciate the info! Will go with MWF for about 8 weeks and see how I feel and increase if needed

Appreciate all the info you supply! Will go with more frequent doses!

Also may be able to get free Test U through NHS so might go to that long term

That’s a reasonable plan. Make one change at a time, if possible, so you can properly evaluate it’s effects.

I’ll posit this has to do with both dose and frequency. If I remember correctly trying to trace back the kinetics of testosterone on hepcidin suppression and to EPO, it’s first order. Once you reach saturation, you can’t make more RBCs. If your dosages are too high then daily frequency ain’t going to help if you are sensitive.

Here’s an example (me at 140 mg/week of TC - 98 mg/week of testosterone):
image

Doing once weekly brings me back into physiologic range a good portion of the PK profile. Doing once daily does not. Counter intuitive to me for a while. That’s what make it fun.

So whether you do Test Ester once a day (injection amount = weekly dosage / 7) or once weekly (weekly dosage / 1) you run into the same problem (trough never drops below physiologic range) if your weekly equivalent dose is too high. To lower/turn off hepcidin suppression and slow down erythropoiesis in an interval fashion, you have to drop test levels intermittently below where they saturate the chemical cascade.

EXAMPLES-Delusions (again with my clearance estimates)

75 mg/week equivalent of TC (always in linear range of RBC production so no advantage):
image

200 mg/week equivalent of TC (limited advantage/no advantage since you rarely touch the range):
image

My argument is that dosing frequency can only be manipulated (same equivalent weekly dose) to lower Hct when your mean TT is hovering around the saturation point for RBC production. Is that the upper reference range for TT? Don’t know and I’m sure it’s variable on the individual. I’ll approximate as the upper reference range until I find some data. Anecdotally this seems to work for me but not enough data to prove.

See this thread…

I think this is what @increasemyt was getting at (and the authors of the paper he cited).

So I should switch back to less frequent doses so as to have a lower trough and ignore the peaks?

Or better yet just buy some test u and go once a week and stop being a goddamn pin cushion?

That’s what I am going to try and prove out with some testosterone troches (buccal administration). Match diurnal swings that occur naturally but huge peak (I am going to gun it) and low low trough every day. If kinetics are linear and there’s a saturation point, you aren’t penalized (at least in nonlinear fashion) for the high peak and get more credit (in a weighted fashion) for the trough. I think that’s why we see less Hct issues with men on the creams (spend a significant portion of the day in lower half of the range) unless they are slathering it on all day. Obviously, not much help if you are blasting with esters but for TRT it’s interesting discussion.

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I see your theory and understand what your getting at, had this in the back of my mind too.

Just not sure as to how to go about this new protocol as Dr will want to test bloods in 6 weeks time.

With your dosage in my body (see example), frequency (weekly vs daily) it wouldn’t make a difference. Opportunity in that semi-blast realm for sensitive people (like me) to do some optimization on weekly dose equivalent vs HCT curve. Think I family of curve parameterized by injection frequency where you find a local minimum with weekly vs daily injections.

Part of me just wants to take 100mg/w of test u, experiment with MENT and once a year blast some primo. Seems much easier than trying to dial in these stupid numbers in order to keep my blood from becoming pancake batter.

See the dose response of testosterone effect on hepcidin followed by saturation after going past roughly 125 mg/week. Older guys more pronounced effect.

So once you elevate past the upper limit on testosterone physiologic range, no additional penalty on Hepcidin suppression (i.e. saturation)


Could you do me a favour? I’m a very simple person lol! Could you explain the above in simple terms?

So what your saying is if you are in a constant range or saturation range then it promotes RBC production?

Weekly would in theory lower this if you fell out of the saturation range but what if your trough is still in the saturation range? There is still going to be a big peak in TT, FT and E2 and then a gradual decrease, surely it’s better for the body to adapt to a lower mid range consistently?

If the average of your peak/trough is near the top of the range, may be better to do once weekly injections instead of daily/biweekly injections. Average is the same but your trough is much lower on weekly injections and hence you get some Hct benefit over more frequent injections.

In a normal healthy person, testosterone level is not constant over the course of a day. It’s peaking and troughing and the trough can be below range. Again all this is only if you have issues with Hct. Does that help?

All this flies in the face of philosophy to keep your T levels as constant as possible while on TRT. Also why regimen of injections every 2 weeks isn’t quite as nuts as everyone makes it out to be.

Yea makes perfect sense what you are saying.

Personally I just want to inject the protocol that will make me feel the best, I do like the idea of weekly injections of cypionate, 1 day a week and that’s it for another 7 days.

Also like the idea of getting a slight peak and drop off, started this evening at MWF so will do this for about 6 to 8 weeks and see how I get on.

Trial and error I guess.

Guys please provide me with all your experiences and what you noticed both positive and negative from running more frequent injections other than twice weekly.

I just started M, W, F today and I tend to overthink everything and am extremely cautious with changes etc but I really want to feel more consistent and better.

Is there many benefits to more frequent injections?

Im low SHBG

Can i keep my same dose but split between 3 injections so instead of 37.5mg every 3.5 days, I can do 25mg M, W and F? Do i need to lower the dose slightly or increase?

I’ve used both every other day and twice weekly schedules and did not notice a difference. In fact, I noticed no difference from once a week. That does not mean no one else does.

Most of my patients use weekly dosing. Those that use twice weekly notice a difference between that and once a week, obviously. Some, not many, use three times a week injections.

Honestly, I think this is often the case. But, if a guy tells me he want to try every other day, or daily for that matter, I’m not saying no. Whatever you do, I’d keep your doctor in the loop.

For the most part, I’d say no. But for those very sensitive to hormone fluctuations, it seems there are some. You can lower the (accumulative weekly) dose with more frequent injections, which may lower E2 for some guys. I’ve seen it go up in some cases and they feel better.

I have not seen a correlation between SHBG and injection frequency. For every guy with low SHBG levels using multiple injections per week, I can point to one with single digit SHBG taking once a week and doing great.

If you you are not happy with the results, by all means try something different.
While I think it is fine to play around with different doses and frequencies and “dialing in”, I think the constant obsession with feeling better can be counter productive.

It turns into a kid with a mouth full of candy holding his hand out for more. Reminds me of the guy who, on follow-up, told me his libido could be better. Turned out he and his wife were have sex twice daily.

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Absolutely no difference between daily and twice weekly for me. Even weekly isn’t terribly noticeable.

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Same. One a week or twice a week I feel the same. I’m seriously starting to doubt that the majority of TRT “issue” posts have anything to do with the testosterone itself. It’s not a fix all. I dare to say the majority having issues are related to something else entirely. Anxiety, stress, immune system etc.

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The vast majority of the trt problems on here are totally unrelated to trt. Once you start to dig deeper they start telling you about diet, training, stress at work, etc and huge red flags pop up. There should be a rule: if after a year of trt you’re not feeling better then you have a mandatory psych evaluation and a former Marine and a yoga instructor follow you around for a week and observe your workouts and meals. That would clear up pretty much every issue that ends up here.

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