T Nation

What Are Signs That One's Therapeutic Dose is Too High?

I’m asking because at 200mg/ week.I don’t believe I’m at my optimal sweet spot. It’s better than 100mg. It’s possibly worse or the same compared to when I was at 160mg/week it’s hard to tell really. I want to take lowest dose possible that I am happy with. Doc prescribed 100mg but I use more from UGL test as well as UGL ai.

I asked a similar question but want other people’s experiences so I know that I should lower my dose as I know somethings off.

The fact you’re asking what’s the signs of a therapeutic dose is too high tells me you haven’t experienced it yet. I didn’t experience excess androgens once weekly dosing, but more shot frequency did make a huge difference.

This is why labs are useful, if you were daily dosing this point is moot.

What about thyroid labs, TSH, free thyroid hormones?

I’m asking because dbossa YouTube video matches of high TRT dose…matches me exactly

Bein jacked to the nines and generally awesome as F.

2 Likes

If I’m not mistaken Danny is on “daily” dosing, you are on 100-160 weekly.

100mg and .25mg anstrozole twice a week

I’m thinking of going 70mg 2x/week or 20mg daily

@Emcon456
Drop the anastrozole and you’ll likely feel much better. Just split your current dose to twice weekly and give yourself at least a month to get used to the new protocol. I did literally the exact same thing as you. Started at 220mg/week with anastrozole. Didn’t feel amazing. Eventually dropped to 100mg/week and dropped the anastrozole. Every 2-3 months I went up 20mg and found I actually feel best at 200mg and that the AI was causing most of my issues. The rest were remedied by more frequent injections. I would have saved a lot of time had I just dropped the anastrozole and went to more frequent dosing but stayed at the same dose.

3 Likes

What is your dosing schedule?
200mg/week without an ai…even at daily injections that seems like it would aromatize…what did you notice that was better personally after switching to this protocol?

200mg makes my face very oily…my face looks shiny a lot…thankfully I don’t get acne.

What I hate about isolating the way I feel is that…I also take adhd medicine daily that has similar side effects(mild) to what could be too high test, too high estrogen, too low estrogen.

@Emcon456
200mg/week daily IM in the delts using a 28g 1/2 inch needle 1CC insulin syringes.
If you knew what my estrogen was you’d shit a brick. It doesn’t matter. Most of what you’re feeling is likely because you’re doing a large amount at once. When you switch to smaller shots you don’t have those issues. My dick works as good as it gets, no oily skin or any other issues. I feel great and I’m happy. When you switch there will be a period of time that your body needs to get used to the change (Just like any protocol change on TRT).

I only need 7mg daily (49mg weekly) to achieve levels 400> and estrogen at 33, or 20mg EOD (80mg weekly) to achieve the same levels (±25 ng/dL) except estrogen is now 53 pg/mL. The latter protocol is using 31mg more and you can clearly see I’m aromatizing more and it’s as if that extra 31mg goes towards estrogen.

The point is you are using less testosterone on a daily protocol. On a 50mg twice weekly protocol, even though my Free T levels were 29, it felt like Free T was low. That’s because I’m super sensitive to fluctuating hormones levels and therefore TRT becomes less effective.

What were the cons when you were dosing 220mg/week twice per week that you no longer experience on current protocol? Reduced anxiety? Sleep better? Less lethargic? More productive?

The pros of doing daily IM in the delts has nothing to do with the placebo of injecting everyday thus feeling like you’re more stable or flat right?

For me the sign that a dose (in terms of therapeutic effect) is “too high” is simply that the level of benefit I perceive levels off and exacerbated autonomic dysfunction becomes irritating… not to say I experience any detrimental side effect aside from the sympathetic nervous system dominance… but libido increase levels off (doesn’t decrease though), energy ceases to continually increase etc. For me, I find the benefits level off at 200mg weekly, autonomic dysfunction becomes problematic after 225mg/wk

If haematological parameters increase rapidly, not even blood letting can control it… lipids are fucked etc the dose is probably too high (barring present genetic abnormalities regarding lipid management).

1 Like

@Emcon456

This is a very good, and interesting question, one which I do not think there is a one size fits all answer. Using AAS years ago, our drug cycles were pretty much dictated by what we could get our hands on, and what we could afford. The “more is better” mindset was something that we discovered was not correct. Besides, my sport was “Olympic style” weightlifting, so strength was only part of it, not all of it. I out lifted stronger guys because I was more skilled, and I was beaten by guys not as strong as me who were simply better athletes, faster, etc., more skilled.

Many of us found out that there is not only a point of diminishing returns, no returns, but even damaging returns. However, I do think this was more a factor of the length of time we were “on” than the particular dose. I reached a point where at the end of the cycle I always felt I was ready to get off and take a break. Of course, after a couple of months with my strength dropping, my work capacity diminishing, I was ready to crank it up again. Also, we were using supraphysiological doses, stacks, etc. and for me, testosterone was usually at 400mg a week but sometimes I went to 600-800mg, though briefly. Yeah, do that long enough and you will get sick. We had no aromatase inhibitors or SERMs and we did just fine, though there were a few that had side effects that could be related to estrogen.

To your question, look for fluid retention, nausea, hypertension, insomnia, fatigue, an overall sense of feeling ill, but you can’t really describe it. Other side effects such a acne, sexual dysfunction (in either direction) are reported. I also think there is a mindset where if you look for something hard enough, you’ll find it, so try not to overthink it.

At 200mg a week, you’re at the most commonly used dose. Some feel better with more, and some with less.

How high up did you get in the sport? Did you start using anabolic immediately after starting or only when seriously competitive?

Is that you in you’re profile pic? If so, why would you admit to AAS use + show a pic of yourself, theoretically wouldn’t any medals you’ve won be stripped?

I think just being on the forums increases the probability of having issues.

4 Likes

Pretty high.

When I reached the point where the only ones beating me were on.

Nope.

While I obviously cannot use my name, AAS were not against any rules when I started and actual drug testing did not start until I was on the downside of my competitive career.

I think that is correct. Good advice given to me at one time was “don’t look for something you do not want to find.”

4 Likes

I’m actually prescribed 100mg/week by PCP. I knew it wasnt enough cause I had already gone through 100mg protocol with him a year before and 160mg/week with a
TRT clinic. He seems conservative on it and idk how to bring up in words to him why I don’t feel my best at 100mg.
I bought UGL Testosterone to go up to 200mg and been doing that since August. I never did labs on 200mg/week at his office I just know a general ball park range of numbers because I remember them very well on 160mg…for example on 160mg I was taking .125mg anas 3x week so what I did now for 200mg is .25mg 2x week.

I have PCP appointment tomorrow to talk why 100mg isn’t efficient for me. But I doubt he’ll up it to 200mg that’s a big jump but in the end I want to stop buying UGL Test and Anas it’ll be one less thing to worry about.

How much approx test do you take daily 30mg?

I really think the issue was I went from not injecting to injecting large amounts all at once. There’s a point in the beginning where you have to give your body time to get used to adding new amounts of hormones especially if the levels end up being much higher than your natural par. I probably would have been fine after a while had I not read about the cancer that is “high E2”. I experienced night sweats and less than ideal sleeping (waking up throughout the night), feeling flat energy-wise.

Doing more frequent injections helps feel level. It’s exactly how you would imagine your test level being at around the same number every day to feel. It’s just smooth. When I did once a week I would feel really jacked up the first few days and lethargic later in the week.

1 Like

This

1 Like