T Nation

Westside With No Squatting?

Hey guys, just wondering if some of the more experienced guys in this forum (Hanley, et al) could give me some help putting together a routine. I havent found a pre-made routine yet that will really work for me since I am unable to squat because of knee issues (chipped bone under patellar tendon-Dr. doesnt want to operate).

I figure that if I cant have a strong squat, I might as well still have a strong deadlift and bench. My pb best bench is 250 with no hand off and pb deadlift is 405…havent quite gone from shit to suck yet. Currently weight 195 at 5’7".

I thought about doing westside and just doing a deadlift variation or GM on for max effort and doing speed pulls (possibly against bands) for my dynamic work. I have heard from a lot of people though that max effort pulling on a week to week basis is not a good idea…Im too green to know better though…

Any thoughts?

Thanks guys.

Westside for skinny bastards

you need to get strong man

[quote]detazathoth wrote:
Westside for skinny bastards

you need to get strong man[/quote]

I want to do speed work too though.

Eh… regular westside so??

I’m guessing you can’t even do hgih box squats?

Why do you want to do speed work?

Doing too much PC work and little to zero quad work sounds like a recipe for knee pain to me!

[quote]Hanley wrote:
Eh… regular westside so??

I’m guessing you can’t even do hgih box squats?

Why do you want to do speed work?

Doing too much PC work and little to zero quad work sounds like a recipe for knee pain to me![/quote]

Well, I can do high box squats, leg press, and hacks with my feet out in front of me, but I dont see the point in box squats if I cant squat to a legal depth…unless there is a way that I could train without getting to depth on a regular basis and then be able to compete and hit depth.

I was thinking of doing a quad dominant movement like hacks or leg press as assistance after pulling.

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Hanley wrote:
Eh… regular westside so??

I’m guessing you can’t even do hgih box squats?

Why do you want to do speed work?

Doing too much PC work and little to zero quad work sounds like a recipe for knee pain to me!

Well, I can do high box squats, leg press, and hacks with my feet out in front of me, but I dont see the point in it if I cant squat to a legal depth…unless there is a way that I could train without getting to depth on a regular basis and then be able to compete and hit depth.

I was thinking of doing a quad dominant movement like hacks or leg press as assistance after pulling.[/quote]

I dunno man… If you’re looking to compete you’d have to train to hit depth… I guess you could only do this once every so often tho, so there’s nothing you can really do but work around it. BUT if you plan on competing in gear working the high boxes might stand to you better since you may get better carryover.

Make sure you’ve got some quad movements in there to keep everything balanced at least.

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
I was thinking of doing a quad dominant movement like hacks or leg press as assistance after pulling.[/quote]

SLED DRAGS SLED DRAGS SLED DRAGS SLED DRAGS

Seriously. I just added them to my routine and i LOVE them. doing them backwards gives you a pump in your quads like no other, and some cardio work to boot. I made it out of a regular car tire with some plywood stuck in the middle, so cost is not an issue. I cant imagine that your knee will bother you on this either given that a) its nto bearing any weight (other than bw) and b) it’s only moving at a very slight angle, not even close to 90

I’m liking the advice on this thread.

Sled drags seems like the way to go.

[quote]Hanley wrote:
I dunno man… If you’re looking to compete you’d have to train to hit depth… I guess you could only do this once every so often tho, so there’s nothing you can really do but work around it. BUT if you plan on competing in gear working the high boxes might stand to you better since you may get better carryover.

Make sure you’ve got some quad movements in there to keep everything balanced at least.[/quote]

Here is what I was thinking:
Monday
Max effort bench, incline, or close grip
Assistance-some sort of press
Triceps
Lats

Tuesday
Speed pulls
Leg Press or Hack Squat
Pull thru, GHR, or Reverse Hyper
Abs

Thursday
Speed bench
Assistance-some sort of press
Triceps
Lats

Friday
Max effort deadlift, deficit pull, rack pull, snatch grip, etc
Leg Press or Hack Squat
Pull thru, GHR, or Reverse Hyper
Abs

[quote]KBCThird wrote:

SLED DRAGS SLED DRAGS SLED DRAGS SLED DRAGS

Seriously. I just added them to my routine and i LOVE them. doing them backwards gives you a pump in your quads like no other, and some cardio work to boot. I made it out of a regular car tire with some plywood stuck in the middle, so cost is not an issue. I cant imagine that your knee will bother you on this either given that a) its nto bearing any weight (other than bw) and b) it’s only moving at a very slight angle, not even close to 90

[/quote]

Iv done these in the pst and they are great. I will probably do some of these on off days as GPP.

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
KBCThird wrote:

SLED DRAGS SLED DRAGS SLED DRAGS SLED DRAGS

Seriously. I just added them to my routine and i LOVE them. doing them backwards gives you a pump in your quads like no other, and some cardio work to boot. I made it out of a regular car tire with some plywood stuck in the middle, so cost is not an issue. I cant imagine that your knee will bother you on this either given that a) its nto bearing any weight (other than bw) and b) it’s only moving at a very slight angle, not even close to 90

Iv done these in the pst and they are great. I will probably do some of these on off days as GPP.[/quote]

Ever gone heavy on them? Like, as heavy as you can go moving at a good pace for 50’ never stopping? I’m not telling you not to do the sled for gpp, but from teh shaking i get in my legs I’m betting it can be pretty good for strength as well. whether that strength carries over into anything else (jumps, sprints, squats if you can ever get back to them, etc I dont know, but its a fun exercise)

Going really heavy with the sled hurts my knee…

At this point Im thinking Im going to be pretty much relegated to push/pull meets.

I guess Ill start posting again in the log I used to keep on here and see how this goes.

Can you do lunges or split squats?

Find a different doctor.

Powerlifting without squats is like fucking without cumming. Ask WABDL hahahaha

[quote]tedro wrote:
Can you do lunges or split squats?[/quote]

Nope. Those cause the most problems.

[quote] Matt wrote:
Find a different doctor.

Powerlifting without squats is like fucking without cumming. Ask WABDL hahahaha[/quote]

The chip is underneath my patellar tendon and is partially embedded. He doesnt want to operate on it because it would cause a lot of disruption to the tendon and probably put me up for about 6 months.

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Matt wrote:
Find a different doctor.

Powerlifting without squats is like fucking without cumming. Ask WABDL hahahaha

The chip is underneath my patellar tendon and is partially embedded. He doesnt want to operate on it because it would cause a lot of disruption to the tendon and probably put me up for about 6 months.[/quote]

Sorry, I was half being a prick. Seriously though, I would definitely get a second opinion.

I once injured my hand training. It got to where I coudln’t hold a damn bar or anything. There was what felt like a mass right in the center of my palm. I went to a hand specialist and she said we needed to do surgery. Day before surgery came and they said I had to pay $400 for the room because they don’t accept insurance. I cancelled the surgery and went to another Dr for another opinion. Xrays and MRI later, I had tendonitus in my palm and the “mass” was just localized swelling.

Always get a second opinion.

Ill definitely try to get another doctor to check it out.

You may be able to do box squats, I am not a medical professional and could be speaking out my ass, but Louie supposedly recovered from a patella tendon tear by box squatting. You would have to make sure to sit back enough and stuff. If it hurts stop.