T Nation

Westside Style 5/3/1


#1

Hello guys i would like to know if i can insent some westside training principles to the jims 5/3/1 program i was running 5/3/1 BBB for some months and gave me amazing gains on my lower body lifts my deadlift whent from 350 pounds to 440 and my squat from 225 to 315 in 3 months my squat from 225 to 315( nothink special but i am lifting less than a year) So the program i desined looks like this You start with the competion lifts and you complete one cycle with 5/3/1 template . Then you chose a lift variation and complete another cycle so the idea is to rorate the lifts every cycle. When you complete 4 cycles you start again with the standard competions lifts .Thens you can add assistance work ( repetion method some connective tissue work with bands back off sets beyond 5/31 template etc… For example

Cycle 1
week1 day1(ME Deadlift) day2(ME Bench) day3 ME squat day4( DE bench)
week2 day1(ME Deadlift) day2(ME Bench) day3 ME squat day4( DE bench)
week3 day1(ME Deadlift) day2(ME Bench) day3 ME squat day4( DE bench)
week4 You only perform assistance work like a deload week
Cycle 2 Day1(ME Deficit DL) day2 (ME floor press) Day3(ME box squat) Day4(DE bench)


and goes on.
what’s your thought on this template?


#2

This isn’t 5/3/1. If you want to do a westside/conjugate training then do that and you can borrow some 5/3/1 principles if needed, so its not a 5/3/1 question.

If you were doing the stronglifts 5x5 program (hint, every set is 5 reps) would you read about some bodybuilding program that uses reps in the 8-12 range along with some intensity techniques like dropsets and rest pause and ask if you could do those in stronglifts 5x5 instead?


#3

Sounds ehm interesting.
It’s not Wendlers 531.
So if I get you right, you just found a training program/principle that works insanely well.
Stick to what works. Don’t changes until progress stops intirely.
Was about to walk out of a line with endless sarcasm.
Jim has a great program and Louie has a great program, so have numerous coaches. Stick to one, until you know your body.


#4

an article by Brandon smitely (Elite fts author, trainer, and world record holder) about implementing 531 into conjugate style training (remember it’s not westside unless you are at westside). If you’re comfortable with 531 and want to try conjugate style training for a little bit , this is a good place to start. I’ve found with this forum if you ask anything that’s not in the book or changes the program slightly to your wants or needs you get treated like an idiot by 80 percent of users. Fact is Chad Wesley Smith and Matt vincent both wrote books and trained using their own interpretations of 531 (juggernaut and strength lab) and I wouldn’t call them idiots or weak. You don’t know until you try.


#5

So if i got it right after the max effort lift you perform the classic 5/3/1 with a percentage based on that day (its like back off sets with 5/3/1 template) and you also rotate lifts every three weeks right?


#6

read the entire article and read Dave Tates Periodization bible part 1 and 2. should get you started. Brandon gives a number of ways to implement 531 in conjugate style training including 531 sets bbb etc. the amount you rotate your lifts is based off your experience level more experience = more rotation.


#7

these two articles explain exactly what you were looking for. In the words of my bootcamp instructor “you have been given the tools”.


#8

Interesting article.
I was not trying to be a dick.
Just saying before fiddling with a wellknown program that obviously works. Let the program do the job.
And on the Wendler forum i quess most people likes Jims work.
I don’t follow Jims programs to the T.
But I have made a clear decision before each cycle.
Ex. this time I do a butchered 5x531 with 3 topsets and 3 FSL sets followed by supplemental as per SST. Then assistance.
THAT is too much and I’m dialing some of it back starting a new cycle.
I don’t call it a 531 program and rarely says that i am doing 531. I know the principles and try to stick to them.
One of Jims principles is to be good at the 4 big lifts, by doing the 4 big lifts.
Jim occasionally drops by this forum. Any of us hope the man will give his words.
And Jim is a very direct man, that affects some of us followers.
I don’t believe en switching the lifts out. Only doing squat every 4 months or so.
I like doing the squat 531 or 5’ pro, then you can do your supplemental different every cycle like front squat, box squat etc.
I would say try your version report back, your dick will not fall off.


#9

Because it isn’t 531 or Conjugate anymore. There are no dynamic days on 531 and there are no rep PR off a training max days on Conjugate. They’re both great programs with sound principles with a similar idea, by are both very different ideas. If you start to tweak ideas, it isn’t the same idea anymore.


#10

do Westside OR 5/3/1, not both…


#11

Conjugate periodization is nothing more that raising several abilities at once - it has NOTHING to do with changing movements. For example, most athletes, especially beginners, use some form of conjugate periodization: they raise their strength, hypertrophy, speed and conditioning at the same time. So we use running, box jumps/bounds/throws, lifting (differing the variables of each) to have a balanced program. Beginners do very well with this as they are essentially physically retarded in all areas - it’s only an ADVANCED LIFTER (not athlete) that usually needs separate blocks of each; although some athletes have somewhat specialized blocks where certain attributes are maintained.

100% of beginners do not need to dynamic work with a barbell as their intra/inter muscular coordination is painfully low. That is why jumping/throws are ESSENTIAL. As is sub-max work and calisthenics and running and landing and really basic GPP work.

I just hate to see the term “conjugate” aka CONCURRENT used improperly when supposedly talking high level programming. For more information, please read Supertraining.