T Nation

Westside Questions II

Since the original Westside Questions thread got so long, I’m opening up another one here. If you want to run a search for either of these threads, you should use the keyword “Simmonstate”. Hopefully, this will distinguish these two (and any subsequent) threads from all the other stuff that might come up on a regular search.

And to start the thread off right, I’m going to say that I got an 11-pound (5-kilo) PR on the bench the other day after having used this type of training for about six weeks or so. May not seem like much, but my bench had been stuck for about, oh, a decade, so I’m pretty happy. :slight_smile:

Also, for all you guys who are interested in the bodybuilding aspect of doing a Westside program, I can say that it works quite well. Even without changing my diet, I’ve put on a couple of pounds (none of which is fat), and both my thighs and the area around my shoulder girdle/triceps are looking noticeably thicker. Not only that, my shoulders haven’t felt this healthy in a while. So I’m liking it!

Anyway, this thread is your HQ for getting all the info you could ever want about Westside. Props and thanks to Steve, Goldie, Big Martin, Irondoc and the rest of the powerlilfting vets who’ve been unstinting in giving their time and expertise. We appreciate it, guys.

Some generic westide tips and stuff. If you can afford to get a safety squat bar. I bough one recently to take some stress off of my shoulders. Two workouts as a substitute and I see the difference in my right ac joint already. I plan to use it for all squats and good mornings for at least a month.
If you buy westside equipment, get it from Dave Tate at elite fitness. I’m not paid to say this, just my observation that he sells the best stuff around. The man’s a world class lifter that knows the little ins and out that the regular joe won’t think of. To see him describe why the EFS power rack is the way to go would convince anyone. From the lips on the j hooks, to the various pin positions available, to other little design goodies, well, you would see. His glute ham is the best along with the other stuff at his sight.
The other place to get stuff is Milo(ironmind). Top notch lifetime equipment.
Louie explains in this months plusa why pin pulls do jack for your deadlift over 6" plates above the floor. It amounts to to much stress on the nervous system. He quotes some Russian research where they kept their lifters at pulls not to exceed over 10% greater than max. He must be right, I never felt lockouts did a thing, at least for me. Louie recommends pin pulls from 2",4", 6" above the floor(distance of the plates to the floor)and from a 1" to 4" platform. He also likes the reverse band deadlifts. He suggests a green band for up to 600 pound deads, and a blue for 600 plus. This will make 135 weightless at the floor, but pull like hel since the dropoff is quick. When I did my 500 1 1/2 months ago, I was just missing 517 with the green band. It was a possibility but I pulled a little sissylike and just missed. The band deads launch from the floor, but will get heavy quick.

I would also like to thank everyone on this thread. I never looked at powerlifting forums because it was all bitching about federations and shit and very little to do with training. I thought T-mag was for bodybuilders until Dave Tate said it is a good forum so i decided to check it out and it is great (you guys are great) because no one gives a shit that I lift in the usapl or what the fuck ever. It is great that we all maybe have diffirent goals and lift in diffirent federations but are main objective is training and getting stronger, it makes coming to t-mag everyday a real blast for me. IM glad you guys let me participate and I will do my best to help any one who needs it…thank you Big martin

Pull-through question - I do my pull throughs in my gpp warm up for any where from 3-5 sets of 10-20 reps, I also do band pull throughs and band leg curl supersets 3x33 before I go to bed after training days. I use any where from 50 -135 pounds. You are correct in your form the main objective is to get a good hamstring stretch and use your hips. At the Elite fitness seminar they really stress that a good hamstring movement also hould involve a hip lock out because it mimics the squat and dead. Good luck Big martin

You lift in the USAPL. You suck! haha. powerlifting forums suck because of just that. Ive learned a shit load too. We should have a contest for TMAG Westsiders. The biggest total by the end of the year. Im looking at 750-400-625. Beat that punks. And even if you do you wont be near as sexy as i am. We need to keep this thread going fo sure. Westside till ya die! haha.

Exactly, I stopped competing due to multiple federation nonsense and injuries. I’ve decided if my body holds up to just compete in the closest meet. Around Pa., the IPA seems pretty active, so I’ll go there. I like equipment for the injury protection, so I’ll skip the raw stuff.

You’re on ,but remember I’m only 195 on a fat day. We gotta go formula. I also suggest we decide on the sexiest powerlifter once and for all. My suggestion is a pageant round in metal briefs. Also a food, dead animal eating, beer drinking round should be included. Post meet of course.

USAPL, IPF, APF…la dee fucking dah…my head is swimming with federations ever since I began researching on othe power lifting forums earlier this month. Whew.

I’m just gonna compete in whatever meets are around. Besides, it’s usually the Meet Director that sets the tone for either a meet that sucks or one that rocks. At least that’s my understanding. Whattya think to that irondoc, Goldberg, Steve?

Anyways, I just wanna compete. Which I’m sure is the same sentiment shared by many other competitive power lifters.

Okay…back on track here. Westside?

Oh yeah: this past Friday I tried to hit my 315 (conventional) dead. Couldn’t do it; however I was able to hit three singles of 295. With no problems.

WHAT am I doing wrong? I noticed I was slower in the execution. Which worries me. I won’t be performing deads again until three weeks. Would like to work on becoming (even) stronger in all the assistant movers in the meantime. I’m really near to be able to raise myself in the glute-ham raise. So, I feel my hams are getting plenty strong. So, again…WHAT else could I do?

Where are you failing at? I’m liking my new toy right now, the safety squat bar. I’ll have to tell you how it works out.

Patricia, in Goldberg’s training log thread they were talking about how some people are able to grind through a lift whereas others are able to speed through one lift and get stapled by the next. They said that the people that explode one lift and get stapled the next are more speed lifters. The people that are able to muscle through a lift are stronger but slower.

The speed people should obviously work on improving strength (i.e. putting more effort into Max Effort Days; that is if you’re following the Westside protocol). And vice versa.

Im down!!! I am shooting for 650-700 sq,450 bench, 550-600dl (yea yea I suck, well at least my grip does). Yea I go USAPL right now because they got a great groups of guys here in Indiana. And my training partner is 19 and he loves dominating in the teen division. I havent competed in a Usapl meet yet but me and my training partner are going to Nebraska December 7th or 14th for the USAPL qualifying opens so we can qualify for the collegiates. I dont give a shit about winning trophys or weight classes and shit like that I like to battle myself in training to reach goals, I just go to the meets to compete against myself. Me and my trainig partner are looking to do a warm up meet in any federation in late september - october. If you guys know of any good ones let me know, we will travel damn near any where. We might go up to Main and do the APF pine tree open on Nov 1,2. It is put on by Russ Barlow. Or on October 11 do the NASA kentucky Regionals. But who knows these will just be warm ups for the USAPL open or senior staes in early December. Well just use these to get used to our gear and shit.

Patricia- where did you miss the lift at? Were you slow off the floor, at lock out, or did you loose your grip. Why are you not going to dead lift for 3 weeks? I pull in 3 week cycle after my dynamic squat (speed pulls), I pull sumo. My grip sucks so I do week 1. fat bar deads 10x1 30 seconds rest 45%, week 2 fat bar deads 6-8x1 60% 30 second rest, Week 3 regular bar deads 10x1 50% 30 seconds rest then I Work up to a heavy single. week 4 I do good mornings after the dynamic squat for 5x5 or 3x3, This has helped me a lot. Dave Tate talks a lot about these speed pulls in the eight keys. This has helped me, but my problem isnt my lower body it is my grip. If you fell like you are slow off the ground this would be the way to go (speed pulls) I would lower you percents little maybe between 30%-50% and keep workin hard you will get that pr in no time good luck Big Martin.

First off, I think it’s great to have this thread as well; I love seeing PL stuff on T-Mag.

Goldberg, I’m right with you, bro. It does, however, appear that I might beat you to a 600 pull…you sure you wanna make another bet?

irondoc, that sounds an awful lot like a bodybuilding contest to me…you need to go do Dimels (sets of 20) until you come back to reality.

Patricia, I agree that the meet director is sometimes the most important thing to look at when deciding where to compete. About the deadlift; where are you sticking?

Irondoc- You just got a safety squat bar, fucking awesome…get ready for your lower back to get really fucking strong. I have had my ssb since early last may and It has helped me a lot. I love the 12 inch ssb low box squats. I also love it for conditioning on dynamic squat day 20x2 at 30-45 seconds rest it will kick your ass and get you in shape fast, Have Fun with it Big Matin.

I’m in. Adjusted for the 198’s of course!

OK an amazing thing is starting to happen. I can feel the difference from the speed work! I’m getting faster!

For instance today I did my DE bench workout and then went for a heavy single afterwards. I did 21x3 with 3 different grips.

My best bench is 270 lbs. about 8 weeks ago back. But I remember it took forever, because I was so slow as I approached the lockout.

After all of that speed work, I topped out at 265 today, which seems pretty good to me considering my previous max. But once I hit the sticking point, I blasted thru it. Its amazing to tell the difference the speed work has.

I am doing rack presses on ME day. I can lockout 315.

Two questions:

1.)Should one ever increase their DE bench weight? or when do you?

2.) My hips wanted to rise a little when I started to go heavy. My body knows I can lift the weight now, so how can I curb this?

I’ve never seen anyone discuss thus before. I don’t want to be like those guys that bench hela weight but their ass is 3 feet in the air. Obviously, I’m exaggerating in my case as it was a very slight rising, but it was a rising nonetheless. Suggestions? Weak abs maybe?

I’m in for the contest. But why don’t we compete in who has the most improvement, as obviously there will be most of us who are just starting powerlifting as well.

Oh, and seeing that I just cut my huge afro off, I’m definately the sexiest.

I already love the safety squat bar. the first workout I tried 1" below parallell box squat and got stapled at 435. I kind of forgot about the camber and had the pins set to low. Dumbass here had to sit for awhile waiting for my buddy to unload the bar. I made the 415 easy but got totally f’ed with 435. I guess I could write it down since I sat down for 2 minutes or so. It’s great for the mid and upper erectors. I’m sticking with it while my shoulder mends.
Posing is bodybuilding and gay, but Goldberg still maintains he’s the sexiest. How do we figure that one out? I have the best hands(ninja level three ART), but he still says he prettier. I guess i have to figure out how to work a digital camera. F@#$ I hat technology.

Doc, I hate to break this to you, but my ass puts your hands, Goldie’s bald head and Greek’s 'fro-less pate into some mid-1950’s, definitely-not-sexy shade.

I’ll leave the actual lifting to you other guys, partially because I’m scared of being beaten by Patricia (who will smoke us all if we go formula) but mostly because I’ve got the sexiness portion of the comp locked and don’t need to prove anything beyond that.

Greek dawg1
Should one ever increase their DE bench weight? or when do you?
If I was you what I would do is begin a 3 week cycle. Because you are preety new to this kind of training I would cycle like this. This will work to do 3 things 1.keep training your speed, 2. bein to develop some reversal strength for strength speed, 3. still working to bring up your work capacity and add mass. Continue to use streight weight.

week 1 conditioning- 20x2 45% 30 seconds rest, all close grip
week 2 strength speed- 8x2 70%
week 3 speed work 12 x2 55% plus 2 singles in the 90% range

2.) My hips wanted to rise a little when I started to go heavy. My body knows I can lift the weight now, so how can I curb this?

This just means you are not using your legs correctly. Make sure you are keeping very very tight in the upper back and traps. and drive your hells into the ground good luck big martin

to greekdawg

  1. Propably you don?t have to increase the DE weight for a long time. Every now and then you can do a test with a bigger weight to see if you can maintain the speed. Many 600 benchers use 185-225 with minis for their speed work. I?ve been using 135-175 with different band tension. My max has gone up 45lbs but the DE weights have stayed the same.

  2. This is a common problem with form. You have to use your legs to push your upper back through the bench. The hips move towards your head, not up. Usually different foot placement helps. Try to move your legs wider.

Hope this helps!