T Nation

Westside for Bench and DL, 531 for Squat

I’ve been doing the conjugate method for the last few months, and I have gotten great gains on bench and deadlift, but my squat has not budged a pound, so I thought I’d like to try something else. What do you think of this layout?

Week 1
Day 1: 5 3 1 squat with 85%x5+
Day 2: ME upper
Day 3: DE lower (box squats, etc)
Day 4: DE upper

Week 2
Day 1: ME deadlift
Day 2: ME upper
Day 3: DE lower
Day 4: DE upper

Week 3
Day 1: 5 3 1 squat with 90%x3+
Day 2: ME upper
Day 3: DE lower
Day 4: DE upper

and so on.

Or what about staying with conjugate for the upper body, but switching over completely to 5 3 1 for the lower body?
Day 1: 5 3 1 squat with 85%x5+
Day 2: ME upper
Day 3: 5 3 1 deadlift with 85%x5+
Day 4: DE upper

Week 2
Day 1: 5 3 1 squat with 90%x3+
Day 2: ME upper
Day 3: 5 3 1 deadlift with 90%x3+
Day 4: DE upper

and so on.

If you think my ideas are fucking retarded and I should just completely switch over to 5 3 1, let me know in the harshest manner possible. I know that changing a program around is highly suggested against, but I just want to know if what I’ve theorized is actually workable. I know that I will still make progress on upper body if I fully switch over, but I really like the conjugate method of training the upper body, so I am asking. I also know it would be better to ask Jim Wendler himself but I can’t seem to find his email, and I also seem to be having trouble registering on his forum (using my real name).

Thanks!

What movements are you currently rotating on squat day? What,accessories are you using.

If it were me I would go with the second option. You found something that works for getting your bench up, so just stick with that.

Stick with Westside, don’t try to mix the two together. Your DL and Bench are going well, the DL will carry over to the squat eventually. Your issue is probably more to do with what exercises you’re picking to improve your squat.

What ME variations have you been using for squat/DL day? What are your numbers like, and how have the BP and DL gone up since you started? Video of the squat and where you struggle with the squat could also be helpful in picking more helpful ME variation.

I highly suggest posting a video of a heavy squat so we can help you figure out your weaknesses during your squat. It might not even be a muscular problem. From there, you would better be able to choose the proper assistance and supps to build your squat. If you’re not sure which exercises help with what kind of problems you could ask in here too.

I found the same thing - when I first ran 5/3/1 I made great gains on bench and squat but shitty gains on deadlift. Then, when I switched to westside style training, I made great gains on my deadlift and squat, and shitty ones on my bench. So I mixed the two. And it has worked great for me thus far. So I say go for it.

Mixing programs can be a shitty idea for someone who is a beginner, and would make better gains by just sticking to something that a stronger, more experienced lifter came up with. But there comes a time when, in order to make the best gains, you need to start tailoring your program to YOUR needs as a lifter.

I’ve been doing westside for my squats with great results but i give my ME lower body day the least amount of variation. I deadlift every 3rd week, and sometimes squat two weeks in a row or box squat and squat, but I only either deadlift, box squat or squat and it’s worked great. I squat 480 and deadlift 610 raw and natural at 173

How long do you think you are going to be able to keep that up with only 3 variations for lower body? not saying it won’t work I mean I have some some people deadlift ME and squatME in the same week and make progress

I think i’ll be able to keep up with it for a while. I’ve been doing it for a few months and have showed no signs of slowing down. You have some people who max squat every day, or with shieko or smolov multiple times a week without any other kind of main movement for squat. Also people like Stan Efferding and Eric Lillibridge rotate squat and deadlift every week without rotating with box squat, goodmornings, or any other of the main movements westside uses. While some people will benefit from a wide variety of ME exercises, someone like the poster will be better off sticking to the basics and using something like goodmorinings as an assistance exercise.

I think you should stick to one or the other.