Westside Deadlifts?

[quote]itisfinished wrote:

There is entirely too much research supporting this as fact. It’s not to say that the improvements would be as great should a person focus on ANY given lift, but the fact of the matter is a person will see improvement. Lest we forget that much of what Westside barbell espouses comes from the Eastern Block and much of their methodology focused on NOT training the competition lifts, but developing other strength qualities that added to the lifters strength and efficiency when preparing for a competition. [/quote]

Eh… qualify this statement.

[quote]big martin wrote:
Chuck v 835
Panora 800
Big Tim Harold 800+ almost pulled 900 I believe in Vegas in 06
Mike Rugerria 800+
Stafford near or at 800
The late Matt Dimel was a 800 pound puller I believe.
Matt Smith near or at 800
Louie over 700 as a masters lifter
Harrington over 700 @ 198
Matt Wenning in the 700’s
Dave Hoff has pulled i think in the 720’s and he is a teen…
JR Holdsworth had a huge pull near 800

Just a few I could remember…

[/quote]

These pulls seem convincing enough. So, I’m not sure why there’s a debate.

Also, I think all those Good Mornings (especially the Andersons) as well as the specialized assistance work (reverse hypers, glute-ham raises, etc.) induce a training effect that inreases full-range pulls.

Lastly, I recall at least one Westside article discussing the fact that Westsiders perform full-range pulls in training only occasionaly to check for status, so they don’t impede progress from overtraining due to the stress of frequently performed full-range pulls.

I’m just an old hacker who (when healthy) can pull 625 full range(with no belt, no suit, no juice) at 230 (10%), but that’s better than my max was back when I used to do full-range pulls in training more frequently.

Some of my personal improvement might be attributable to the fact that doing full-range pulls less frequently means less wear and tear, especially in the lumbar region, over time. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s one of the reasons the Westside vets don’t prescribe doing full-range pulls too often in training.

[quote]Hanley wrote:
itisfinished wrote:

There is entirely too much research supporting this as fact. It’s not to say that the improvements would be as great should a person focus on ANY given lift, but the fact of the matter is a person will see improvement.

Lest we forget that much of what Westside barbell espouses comes from the Eastern Block and much of their methodology focused on NOT training the competition lifts, but developing other strength qualities that added to the lifters strength and efficiency when preparing for a competition.

Eh… qualify this statement.[/quote]

Hanley it is pretty well established that Louie read a TON of old Russian research and began putting together the Westside Method. If you’ve never read Supertraining or any of Dr. Siff or Verkhoshasky’s work then I strongly recommend it.

There’s a great deal of information on speed of movement and FT fiber type recruitment, along with different loading protocols that elicited greatest hypertrophy and greatest strength gain. There’s also a little bit of information regarding EMS and fiber type recruitment. The Russians did a HUGE amount of work during the time of the Soviet Union and we here in the Western world have benefited from it’s demise.

Without the Russian’s who knows if we would know what conjugated or undulated periodization are? The fact of the matter remains that majority of the information that Louie has used to derive his method from come from the Eastern block countries. It was a very rare thing for a Russian lifter to perform full OLY lifts prior to a competition, now there were check points for the lifter to gauge progress, but full lifts were not intended as “gym” lifts as we like to say.

[quote]bigvinnie wrote:
pr 905 april 28th 2008 [/quote]

This was your pr?

[quote]Hanley wrote:
itisfinished wrote:

There is entirely too much research supporting this as fact. It’s not to say that the improvements would be as great should a person focus on ANY given lift, but the fact of the matter is a person will see improvement. Lest we forget that much of what Westside barbell espouses comes from the Eastern Block and much of their methodology focused on NOT training the competition lifts, but developing other strength qualities that added to the lifters strength and efficiency when preparing for a competition.

Eh… qualify this statement.[/quote]

What itisfinished said two posts ago is right on the money. To simplify it for you, they work at improving their squat but not through squatting. They use other exercises to build the muscles; like Good Mornings. Good Mornings are the best example. Louis himself has said it many times, “at Westside we live on Good Mornings”. HEAVY Good Mornings on Max effort day; rather than squatting as the main exercise. Zerchers, Belt Squats, Good Mornings, it’s all good!!!

[quote]HP666 wrote:
Hanley wrote:
itisfinished wrote:

There is entirely too much research supporting this as fact. It’s not to say that the improvements would be as great should a person focus on ANY given lift, but the fact of the matter is a person will see improvement. Lest we forget that much of what Westside barbell espouses comes from the Eastern Block and much of their methodology focused on NOT training the competition lifts, but developing other strength qualities that added to the lifters strength and efficiency when preparing for a competition.

Eh… qualify this statement.

What itisfinished said two posts ago is right on the money. To simplify it for you, they work at improving their squat but not through squatting. They use other exercises to build the muscles; like Good Mornings. Good Mornings are the best example. Louis himself has said it many times, “at Westside we live on Good Mornings”. HEAVY Good Mornings on Max effort day; rather than squatting as the main exercise. Zerchers, Belt Squats, Good Mornings, it’s all good!!!
[/quote]

THe Russians?

The guys in the land of Sheiko?

The training cycle which basically has nothing but the competition lifts?

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
I’m curious what their best deadlifts are. Louie brags about big squats and benches in his articles a lot. But never deadlifts. Now I’m not smarter then louie by any means, but they don’t seem to there deadlift in their training often either. Which just got me kind of thinking.[/quote]

I can not help but feel you have not done your homework on Westside when starting this thread. Until you have read every article on the Westside site and then some, you probably do not have a grasp of how the system works. Hell, I’ve been using the system for a year and I learn something new about it every time I re read an article or when a new one is written by Louie Simmons or any of the guys who train there.

The whole point of the conjugate method is that it is highly flexible. Somebody else on this thread already listed some monster Deadlifts from the guys at Westside, so I will not repeat that.

What I will do is describe how I have and currently do use the Westside system to better my own, currently modest, yet constantly improving Deadlift. 13 months ago I had not Deadlifted for about 3 years. I started Dl and used the Westside principles almost exclusively for the past year and a bit. (Whenever I tried something new, my DL stalled. Back to Westside and it went up).

I competed in my first single lift meet on May 24th 2008:

Here’s how it went:

bw category 82.5kg (I weighed in at 81kg in trainers, so a bit light)
Deadlift 210kg (2.6 times bw)
Class JNR

To put that into perspective its a raw lift in the BDFPA. The British record in my class is 240kg.

Here’s my training 4 weeks before the meet (and its pretty much what Louie Simmons advocates in his articles):

All weight is plus one set of chain (adding 16kg at lockout)
Wk 1
After Speed Box squats
8 singles at 50% 105kg

Wk 2
After Speed Box squats
4 singles and 55% 115kg
3 heavier singles, 130kg, 150kg, 175kg

Wk 3
After Speed Box squats
10 singles at 60% 125kg

Wk 4 ( the week of the meet and no chain)
3 singles at 60% 125 kg

Pulled 210kg (462lbs) at the meet. The %ages seem to work perfectly for me. Notice I never pulled more than 1 rep per set and did not do any Max effort deadlifting within a month of the meet.

I have tried multiple set DL’s and very heavy partials (for me), but I personally find the Westside system works very well for me. Guys who are naturally suited to the Sq and Bp may need more volume, but I can not comment on that,only my personal experience.

All I know is their system seems to work for anyone and they do have some badass DL’s! I think people need to remember that 900lbs plus deads are very rare and anything over 700 is serious depending on weight category

Im out…

[quote]Hanley wrote:

THe Russians?

The guys in the land of Sheiko?

The training cycle which basically has nothing but the competition lifts?[/quote]

You think every Russian train under Boris?

nahhh

And it’s a soviet idea to rotate the ‘max effort’ excercises.

здоpове

[quote]Junior__23 wrote:

And it’s a soviet idea to rotate the ‘max effort’ excercises.

здоpове[/quote]

No one said it wasn’t. Louie Simmons himself has always praised the eastern block and old Soviet Union for their training methods.

Wasz brat w żelazie

[quote]Junior__23 wrote:
Hanley wrote:

THe Russians?

The guys in the land of Sheiko?

The training cycle which basically has nothing but the competition lifts?

You think every Russian train under Boris?

nahhh

And it’s a soviet idea to rotate the ‘max effort’ excercises.

здоpове[/quote]

As far as I’ve been told by powerlifters on the Norwegian IPF team, most international level IPF lifters in Russia train the competition lifts all the time, pretty much like Sheiko’s training philosophy.

[quote]Sigbjorn wrote:
Junior__23 wrote:
Hanley wrote:

THe Russians?

The guys in the land of Sheiko?

The training cycle which basically has nothing but the competition lifts?

You think every Russian train under Boris?

nahhh

And it’s a soviet idea to rotate the ‘max effort’ excercises.

здоpове

As far as I’ve been told by powerlifters on the Norwegian IPF team, most international level IPF lifters in Russia train the competition lifts all the time, pretty much like Sheiko’s training philosophy.

[/quote]

See that’s what I heard too.

[quote]elliotnewman1 wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
I’m curious what their best deadlifts are. Louie brags about big squats and benches in his articles a lot. But never deadlifts. Now I’m not smarter then louie by any means, but they don’t seem to there deadlift in their training often either. Which just got me kind of thinking.

I can not help but feel you have not done your homework on Westside when starting this thread. Until you have read every article on the Westside site and then some, you probably do not have a grasp of how the system works. Hell, I’ve been using the system for a year and I learn something new about it every time I re read an article or when a new one is written by Louie Simmons or any of the guys who train there.

The whole point of the conjugate method is that it is highly flexible. Somebody else on this thread already listed some monster Deadlifts from the guys at Westside, so I will not repeat that.

What I will do is describe how I have and currently do use the Westside system to better my own, currently modest, yet constantly improving Deadlift. 13 months ago I had not Deadlifted for about 3 years. I started Dl and used the Westside principles almost exclusively for the past year and a bit. (Whenever I tried something new, my DL stalled. Back to Westside and it went up).

I competed in my first single lift meet on May 24th 2008:

Here’s how it went:

bw category 82.5kg (I weighed in at 81kg in trainers, so a bit light)
Deadlift 210kg (2.6 times bw)
Class JNR

To put that into perspective its a raw lift in the BDFPA. The British record in my class is 240kg.

Here’s my training 4 weeks before the meet (and its pretty much what Louie Simmons advocates in his articles):

All weight is plus one set of chain (adding 16kg at lockout)
Wk 1
After Speed Box squats
8 singles at 50% 105kg

Wk 2
After Speed Box squats
4 singles and 55% 115kg
3 heavier singles, 130kg, 150kg, 175kg

Wk 3
After Speed Box squats
10 singles at 60% 125kg

Wk 4 ( the week of the meet and no chain)
3 singles at 60% 125 kg

Pulled 210kg (462lbs) at the meet. The %ages seem to work perfectly for me. Notice I never pulled more than 1 rep per set and did not do any Max effort deadlifting within a month of the meet.

I have tried multiple set DL’s and very heavy partials (for me), but I personally find the Westside system works very well for me. Guys who are naturally suited to the Sq and Bp may need more volume, but I can not comment on that,only my personal experience.

All I know is their system seems to work for anyone and they do have some badass DL’s! I think people need to remember that 900lbs plus deads are very rare and anything over 700 is serious depending on weight category

Im out…
[/quote]

I do read the articles, and I do know how the system works, however You’ll hear quite a bit about squats and benches, but rarely big pulls. Which is why I started this thread, to hear about said big pulls.

Considering how many guys have pulled 900+ 800 in my book is still a big pull.

I can assure most of the posters here that there are SEVERAL variations that the Russians have employed over the years. It’s really not much different than when you look at our HIT, EDT, TBT, or any other acronym based program. It’s all a little bit different, but in a lot of ways it’s all the same. We’re all still trying to pick up heavy shit, or if you’re squatting/benching fighting not to get crushed.

That’s just my perspective on it. There will always be a new system or something that has recently been “translated” from the Eastern Block. For me it’s not about where it comes from but how I can utilize the information.