T Nation

Westside Deadlifts?

I’m curious what their best deadlifts are. Louie brags about big squats and benches in his articles a lot. But never deadlifts. Now I’m not smarter then louie by any means, but they don’t seem to there deadlift in their training often either. Which just got me kind of thinking.

Chuck v 835
Panora 800
Big Tim Harold 800+ almost pulled 900 I believe in Vegas in 06
Mike Rugerria 800+
Stafford near or at 800
The late Matt Dimel was a 800 pound puller I believe.
Matt Smith near or at 800
Louie over 700 as a masters lifter
Harrington over 700 @ 198
Matt Wenning in the 700’s
Dave Hoff has pulled i think in the 720’s and he is a teen…
JR Holdsworth had a huge pull near 800

Just a few I could remember…

I was curious about this for awhile too. He claims that westside was dealt a crummy hand as far as genetics go for deadlifting (and that is why their deadlifts are as low as they are) But i think the reason their squats are so far ahead of their deadlifts (on average) is because they don’t deadlift very often

Lots of big squatters are not good DL’ers. Bigger that belly gets harder it is to dead.

[quote]boy wonder wrote:
He claims that westside was dealt a crummy hand as far as genetics go for deadlifting (and that is why their deadlifts are as low as they are)…[/quote]

I’ve never heard Louie claim that.

[quote]Old Dax wrote:
boy wonder wrote:
He claims that westside was dealt a crummy hand as far as genetics go for deadlifting (and that is why their deadlifts are as low as they are)…

I’ve never heard Louie claim that.
[/quote]

I’ve never heard any claims in any direction about westside deadlifts. Which is why I started this here thread.

[quote]big martin wrote:
Chuck v 835
Panora 800
Big Tim Harold 800+ almost pulled 900 I believe in Vegas in 06
Mike Rugerria 800+
Stafford near or at 800
The late Matt Dimel was a 800 pound puller I believe.
Matt Smith near or at 800
Louie over 700 as a masters lifter
Harrington over 700 @ 198
Matt Wenning in the 700’s
Dave Hoff has pulled i think in the 720’s and he is a teen…
JR Holdsworth had a huge pull near 800

Just a few I could remember…

[/quote]

Nice to see you posting again, if you are back…

[quote]malonetd wrote:
big martin wrote:
Chuck v 835
Panora 800
Big Tim Harold 800+ almost pulled 900 I believe in Vegas in 06
Mike Rugerria 800+
Stafford near or at 800
The late Matt Dimel was a 800 pound puller I believe.
Matt Smith near or at 800
Louie over 700 as a masters lifter
Harrington over 700 @ 198
Matt Wenning in the 700’s
Dave Hoff has pulled i think in the 720’s and he is a teen…
JR Holdsworth had a huge pull near 800

Just a few I could remember…

Nice to see you posting again, if you are back…[/quote]

Agreed! Always enjoyed big martin’s contributions.

[quote]NewDamage wrote:
malonetd wrote:
big martin wrote:
Chuck v 835
Panora 800
Big Tim Harold 800+ almost pulled 900 I believe in Vegas in 06
Mike Rugerria 800+
Stafford near or at 800
The late Matt Dimel was a 800 pound puller I believe.
Matt Smith near or at 800
Louie over 700 as a masters lifter
Harrington over 700 @ 198
Matt Wenning in the 700’s
Dave Hoff has pulled i think in the 720’s and he is a teen…
JR Holdsworth had a huge pull near 800

Just a few I could remember…

Nice to see you posting again, if you are back…

Agreed! Always enjoyed big martin’s contributions.
[/quote]

I’m glad I’m not the only one who saw this thread and thought “HOLY CRAP A BIG MARTIN SIGHTING”

I checked your posts dude, it’s been almost 2 years since the last time you posted

Thanks guys!..To be honest I am not on the net that much these days to work and being busy most free time is spent training… I keep a training log and have lots of good friends over at Al Caslows Society of Strength site thats pretty much the only site I visit regularly…Ill try to check in here every now and then…rb

I maintain the gut ain’t the problem- it’s the hands. I see lots of lifters with classic PL buids- kinda short and stubby with thick hands with short, thick fingers. Some of these guys have ungodly posterior strength- it shows in their squats and training lifts (strapped rack pulls, GMs, etc.). However, that amounts to jack- if the bar is rolling out of your hand faster than you can stand up with it. Every big puller I have met has hands and fingers like an orangatan.

[quote]sapasion wrote:
Lots of big squatters are not good DL’ers. Bigger that belly gets harder it is to dead.
[/quote]

Also, most people that are good at bench have short arms. Which isn’t very conducive to a big dead lift. Not always the case though.
The reason they don’t preform deadlifts that often at westside is that when you are working the bench and squat to a significant degree training deads heavy every weeks tends to burn a lot of people out. Thats why many pull heavy every other week to every third week. Many have found they get stronger on the dead doing this.

And… training the ME squat movements such as good mornings and box squats (to name a couple) help build the deadlift. So while they might not be training it directly, they are still building it to a degree.

[quote]Jakebambeeno wrote:
sapasion wrote:
Lots of big squatters are not good DL’ers. Bigger that belly gets harder it is to dead.

Also, most people that are good at bench have short arms. Which isn’t very conducive to a big dead lift. Not always the case though.
The reason they don’t preform deadlifts that often at westside is that when you are working the bench and squat to a significant degree training deads heavy every weeks tends to burn a lot of people out. Thats why many pull heavy every other week to every third week. Many have found they get stronger on the dead doing this.
[/quote]

excellent points.

[quote]Jakebambeeno wrote:
And… training the ME squat movements such as good mornings and box squats (to name a couple) help build the deadlift. So while they might not be training it directly, they are still building it to a degree.[/quote]

I understand the concept. But I was wondering since I’ve never heard about their deadlifts, and I’ve read a lot of Louie’s articles. I was more or less wondering how effective that style of training was for their deadlift.

pr 905 april 28th 2008

Another reason that you don’t see a lot mentioned about the DL is because of the carryover from the squat routines. The primary focus at westside is the bench and the squat, and if you train the squat you’ll train the DL.

[quote]itisfinished wrote:
Another reason that you don’t see a lot mentioned about the DL is because of the carryover from the squat routines. The primary focus at westside is the bench and the squat, and if you train the squat you’ll train the DL. [/quote]

This isnt true for everyone. I understand the thinking behind it, and I’ve applied it in my own training, but it’s not gospel truth for everyone.

[quote]KBCThird wrote:
itisfinished wrote:
Another reason that you don’t see a lot mentioned about the DL is because of the carryover from the squat routines. The primary focus at westside is the bench and the squat, and if you train the squat you’ll train the DL.

This isnt true for everyone. I understand the thinking behind it, and I’ve applied it in my own training, but it’s not gospel truth for everyone.[/quote]

If you want to deadlift allot you have to deadlift, be it from at your knee’s in a rack or from a deficit. But at some point you have to hold onto a heavy weight and lift it from a dead stop at some height.

They dont train deadlift hardly at all because they get a higher total from training their squat than they do deadlifting. There is more weight to be taken out of their squat than their deadlift.

Think about it, me and you start training at the same time, you only deadlift, and I only squat. When we throw on gear it will only be a matter of time before my squat is a few hundred lbs more than your deadlift.

Thats why they focus more on squats than deads, its not bad genetics for deadlifting its simple logic in a quest for a better total.

[quote]Mega Newb wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
itisfinished wrote:
Another reason that you don’t see a lot mentioned about the DL is because of the carryover from the squat routines. The primary focus at westside is the bench and the squat, and if you train the squat you’ll train the DL.

This isnt true for everyone. I understand the thinking behind it, and I’ve applied it in my own training, but it’s not gospel truth for everyone.

If you want to deadlift allot you have to deadlift, be it from at your knee’s in a rack or from a deficit. But at some point you have to hold onto a heavy weight and lift it from a dead stop at some height.

They dont train deadlift hardly at all because they get a higher total from training their squat than they do deadlifting. There is more weight to be taken out of their squat than their deadlift.

Think about it, me and you start training at the same time, you only deadlift, and I only squat. When we throw on gear it will only be a matter of time before my squat is a few hundred lbs more than your deadlift.

Thats why they focus more on squats than deads, its not bad genetics for deadlifting its simple logic in a quest for a better total.

[/quote]

wow, I never even thought about it like that. Excellent post.

I did not intend to state it as “gospel” truth. There is a good bit of carryover from one lift to the other. It might not be 100% true for everyone that has ever lifted but it is true in majority of cases.

There is a substantial amount of carryover from the squat to the deadlift. If a person follows a program that develops the posterior chain in an attempt to get the most out of the squat then the DL will improve. This could be anything from RDLs, heavy rack pulls, GHR, REV. Hypers., or any clean variation.

There is entirely too much research supporting this as fact. It’s not to say that the improvements would be as great should a person focus on ANY given lift, but the fact of the matter is a person will see improvement. Lest we forget that much of what Westside barbell espouses comes from the Eastern Block and much of their methodology focused on NOT training the competition lifts, but developing other strength qualities that added to the lifters strength and efficiency when preparing for a competition.

I trained at Westside for a week (04/28-05/02) a couple of weeks ago and there were a lot of deadlifts done, especially Rack pulls and full range Deads vs bands.

Max effort on Monday was Rack Pulls against a doubled light band! Great fun and lots of blood and skin on the floor:)

You can’t always tell what’s going on at Westside from the articles; I’m sure when I go back in November things will be different again.

Cheers
Chris